Making a statment of being rude?

[madscout96]

In fact, the most I can remember any corps standing still in the past five years is about half of their last song (no guard work is another issue).

But there have been instances where a corps doesn't even perform ANY of their last song. They don't even bother to stand still and finish playing their book.

I'm guessing they get a big hit in vis GE B)

Alright then. But I guess my question is how much? Obviously a show where they have only 20% of the visual in place will suffer a great deal in G.E., but what about 80%?

Just for the record, there isn't a timing penalty until the first regional. I don't think there is even a timing judge at all before the first regional actually. I think the idea is to give the corps a little room for error for a while until they can get the timing right for their show. Some corps come out, and then they realize "Oh gosh, we are 30 seconds overtime!" this gives them time to get their act together and make any cuts necessary without dealing with a 5 point penalty for half of the season.

It's possible that there is still some sort of penalty for being undertime at the early shows, but it seems to me that if there wasn't one for overtime there wouldn't be one for undertime either.

Can anyone else confirm this? Is there anywhere online where someone could look up the rules for DCI contests? I couldn't find anything on dci.org (except for I&E rules).

Edited June 13, 2006 by madscout96

[dbc03]

But there have been instances where a corps doesn't even perform ANY of their last song. They don't even bother to stand still and finish playing their book.

Alright then. But I guess my question is how much? Obviously a show where they have only 20% of the visual in place will suffer a great deal in G.E., but what about 80%?

Can anyone else confirm this? Is there anywhere online where someone could look up the rules for DCI contests? I couldn't find anything on dci.org (except for I&E rules).

I don't think DCI publishes it's rules anywhere online for the world to see, but the last post on the previous page said the same thing I did. I know for a fact that it is true for overtime, and I'm about 95% sure it is true for undertime as well.

[ScribeToo]

Penalties are routinely not assessed in the first month of the season.

well then I guess we'll have to leave it to the staff and administration of any given drum corps.. and trust they would be interested enough in putting a product on the field (even if it's just a measly 7 or 8 minutes) that will be entertaining enough to give people their money's worth.

Honestly.. I don't know what else to tell you guys.

If you want to boo a drum corps that stands still for the last portion of their show in early season, please go and boo your little hearts out. My only hope is that the guy Mark Dewine told us about is sitting in front of you (and that's not a threat, I'm just saying it would make me laugh my butt off).

If you don't want to see an unfinished show, logic would dictate that you NOT attend an early season show to avoid that which you do not want to see.

If you feel you are being slighted, overcharged and underdelivered to, underappreciated or just plain old "dissed" by the corps without finished shows the day you decide to grace the stands with your blessed presence, by all means, I sincerely hope you decide to address the issues you have directly with the people responsible for that very issue -- the staff and administration of whatever drum corps you aim your disdain at.

But this discussion has become ridiculous. For every complaint you've had someone (often several someones) has come along with a relatively painless solution or reason for it.. and you're not satisfied and so you keep swinging.

Well.. as I said.. it doesn't look like this is the place where you're going to get the help or answers you truly want.

It looks like you guys have a decision to make, huh?

Stef

[ChicagoFan]

But to keep up with the off topic - I'd rather see the minimum number of minutes on the field with really good work, and then standstill for the balance of the show if the music is done, than a full eleven minutes or so of crapola.

Why are we so confident that a finished show going to automatically be, in your words, "crapola"? Is it not possible to have a complete early-season product on the field that is of quality?

[ScribeToo]

Why are we so confident that a finished show going to automatically be, in your words, "crapola"? Is it not possible to have a complete early-season product on the field that is of quality?

*shrugs*

I guess not.

My God, drum corps really sucks. I don't know why we bother!

Stef

[ChicagoFan]

Stephanie, your condescending attitude is beginning to anger me. I normally agree with what you have to say and enjoy your posts, but on this one you've really begun to take a "holier than thou" attitude. You're right -- everyone else is wrong!

My comment to which you most recently gave a smart retort was in reply to a previous post in which someone suggested they'd much rather see 8 minutes worth of a polished performance than a full 11 minutes of "crapola." I simply wondered why we're automatically assuming that a full 11 minute show at the beginning of the season will be crapola? It's a legitimate question in response to another post.

[dbc03]

Why are we so confident that a finished show going to automatically be, in your words, "crapola"? Is it not possible to have a complete early-season product on the field that is of quality?

In a lot of cases, no, it's not. Not with the amount of time the corps currently have and the difficulties of the shows.

[JimF-LowBari]

What if a corps comes out, plays the first three minutes of their show while standing on one leg, then puts their horns down, picks up kazoos and plays the next four minutes while doing the funky chicken, and then sits down on the field and plays duck duck goose for the rest of the show????

What if what if what if...

Well they certainly wouldn't do the Funky Chicken (or the Chicken Dance) while playing their horns. Geez, they don't even do high mark time while playing anymore because it throws off the sound quality (or so I've been told). ^0^ :P

OK, question for the panel. Early on would would rather see a complete show with a ragged drill or a well executed 8 minutes of drill with 3 minutes of standstill playing?

[ChicagoFan]

In response to Jim's question: I'd rather see a full show that was still rough around the edges and maybe performed with a few errors rather than an incomplete one. For me, that's the better trade-off.

Face it, at this level of competiton, "ragged" means a few slight spacing errors, maybe a bit of phasing, feet raised at slightly different angles, etc. -- problems that would be almost undetectable to all but the most trained of eyes and ears. We're not talking about junior high marching band with people going the wrong way during the drill, dropping out of line because they don't know where to move next, or forgetting significant portions of the musical charts.

Edited June 13, 2006 by ChicagoFan

[ScribeToo]

Stephanie, your condescending attitude is beginning to anger me. I normally agree with what you have to say and enjoy your posts, but on this one you've really begun to take a "holier than thou" attitude. You're right -- everyone else is wrong!

My comment to which you most recently gave a smart retort was in reply to a previous post in which someone suggested they'd much rather see 8 minutes worth of a polished performance than a full 11 minutes of "crapola." I simply wondered why we're automatically assuming that a full 11 minute show at the beginning of the season will be crapola? It's a legitimate question in response to another post.

My frustration is that this argument has become an argument of absolutes.

It either IS or it ISN'T.

I tend to agree with Fran that I'd rather see 8 or 9 minutes of a pretty good show.. relatively clean.. and a couple of minutes of standstill.. than a show that may come across as having been thrown together.. or that falls apart at the end (as someone very early on in this discussion also pointed out). The LAST impression I have of a corps is typically the one that sticks.. they know that.. that's why they save the coolest moves and fastest stuff (usually) for last.

When you responded "why does it mean that it's crapola just because it's finished" is no more valid than me saying "all corps who put a full show on the field on June 16 are putting crappy shows on."

Neither is the case. There is no absolute.

As a fan for as long as I've been in this activity, I come to expect shows to be incomplete and not very clean until at least mid-season. A big part of my joy of this activity is in watching a show develop. Knowing it might be crap on June 16th.. and seeing it flower by August 9th.. that's part of why I do this every year.

I do get incensed when someone suggests booing as a way of showing our distaste for something a corps ISN'T doing. Not every corps operates in the off season like the Blue Devils.. or Phantom Regiment.. or Blue Stars.. not every corps has their entire membership IN HOUSE by late March. Suggesting that EVERY corps meet this unrealistic expectation (and yes, in this day and age, I do believe it is an unrealistic expectation) of having a show complete and ready to perform by June 16 is ridiculous, IMO. And quite honestly, I am pragmatic and grounded enough in this reality to know that on June 16 I can expect to see unfinished shows. I know that there will still be corps tweaking and holding their guard work out until early July. Neither of those things bother me, particularly.. next time I see that corps, I know they'll be further along, or perhaps even finished.. and I can see how it developed. That enhances my enjoyment. I think of it as the "Sunday in the Park with George" factor.. it's the "putting it together" that pulls me in.

I don't see that as a failure of the activity.. I see it as a process we go through each season. It's not right or wrong, it's just how things work. A staff decides if it's worth it to lose the GE to NO work.. or lose the GE to poorly executed work.. because it's been changed that day or restaged or whatever.

So as to my being "condescending" -- while unintentional, I realize sometimes I come across that way. I appreciate what you have to say.. and quite honestly, I usually find myself agreeing with you as well.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

When you sit across from me at a table and hold a conversation with me, you'll more easily understand that's just not how I am. Unfortunately (or fortunately) I write exactly the way I speak -- even when I write for DCW, I make few corrections or edits -- what comes out is what comes out... because of that, it's difficult to change how I come across on a message board. I can only ask that you forgive an unwittingly condescending comment -- one that wasn't intended to come across that way.

Stef