phan77 Posted July 30, 2006 Share Posted July 30, 2006 I am a big fan of drum corps and want everyone to do well. My hope is that the activity stays healthy because each individual corps stays healthy. There are a lot of opinions related to what makes great drum corps. One area I think that no one would argue to its value is great horn lines. This is my favorite aspect of the activity. Judging horn lines can be difficult. I have considerable experience judging and will state it is not easy. Though I have my favorite horn lines, I try to be as non-biased as possible. I have had time to follow the corps through several shows since S.A. After being surprised by the horn scores from San Antonio, I looked at a copy of the brass performance score sheet and a copy of the placemat used for aiding the evaluation of this caption. I considered the sheets I have used in my judging past: BOA and DCI models. I went to several shows with this review of the evaluation criteria fresh in my mind. I told myself to give the judges the benefit of the doubt, thinking I had missed somethings in S.A. I sat in almost identical places for all shows (four shows): ten to thirty or so rows up near the 50 yard line. The DCI brass performance sheet is broken into two categories: technique and musicality. There is also a statement written in bold across the bottom of the sheet that states that the evaulation is based on consideration of "WHAT" is being performed, and "HOW" it is being performed. I was sure to keep detailed notes during the shows. My scoring(order) process was based on the break down of the "what" and the "how". My results are based on seeing some corps several times and others only twice. The "WHAT"- Who has the most difficult techniques demanded of its brass? tempos style changes exposure of all sections dynamic ranges articulation types time signatures or feels range of expression or understanding required based on the content phrase length physical demand (a big factor ) The "HOW"- How are they meeting the above listed challenges? tone intonation balance/blend eveness of dynamic shaping cracked pitches appropriate style style/articulation player to player appropriate phrase shaping communication of the music's intent Again, how are they performing what is given? After hearing everyone, when really conscience of the previous descriptions, I was surprised as to the result of my evaluation of some groups. The "WHAT" Overall demand of the music book: (In order) Madison Regiment Cadets Blue Coats Spirit Blue Devils Blue Knights SCV Cavies Glassmen Crown Boston Overall physical demand: (In order) Madison Phantom SCV Cadets Blue Devils Blue Knights Spirit Blue Coats Cavies Crown Glassmen Boston The "HOW" TONE (In Order) Cavies (moments of trumpet edge on short notes) Blue Coats (few trumpet and mello edge moments ) Blue Devils (several trumpet issues) Regiment (some trumpet issues, many individuals over blowing) Madison (moments of issue seem to be while running their butts off) Cadets (some very bright sounds scattered through out the performance) Crown (trumpets very weak at times, stuffy low brass at times, pinched mello sounds) Boston ( each section seems to lack depth of player, issues in each section) SCV (each section seems to lack depth of player, esp. during non-tutti moments) Spirt (each section seems to lack depth of player, esp. during non-tutti moments, some big individual issues) Blue Knights (seem to hide lack of depth through scoring, tone concepts very different player to player) Glassmen (seem in a very different league thanrest of the top twelve, a lot of work to do in the area of mature tones) INTONATION (IN Order) Cavies ( minor chordal issues) Blue Coats (some issues player to player on unison lines, several big major chords not locking in) Madison (only issues seem to be the more complicated chords, few individual lapses) Blue Devils (several trumpet tuning ouches in ff moments, tubas blow sharp at times) Cadets (also some issues on more complex chords, several baritone ouches, tubas push sharp at times) Regiment (more issues than I would have thought, all kinds throughout show, seem hot and cold in this area) Crown (lack of trumpet tone also hurts intonation throughout the show, anything beyond unison or open 5th lacks) Boston (their smart scoring hides a lot, ff moments present a lot of tuning problems) SCV (their scoring places most harmonic responsibilitiues in the pit, when horn line has to step up tuning has issues) Spirit (tuning issues throughout, harmonic language of the book is a challenge) Blue Knights (very rough, in the S.A. day show, tuning was extremely poor) Glassmen (lack of maturity player to player for traditional and non-traditional Beethoven needs much more attention) BALANCE/BLEND (IN order) Cavies (always good, maybe too bottom heavy pyramid of sound at times) Blue Devils (good for most part except trumpets at times) Crown (one thing they do consistently well, trumpets an issue often as well as baritones) Blue Coats (lack of detail in all sections for balance seems to be getting better) Boston (the nature of their safe book and compact drill allows for a good B/B most of the time) Madison (some ends of forms an issue but getting much better here) Regiment (over blowing cause issues here) Cadets (bright sounds seem to keep there from being a blended warm sound) SCV (many dindividuals sticking out still, drill placement an issue at times) Spirit (depth player to player causes blend and balance issues a lot of the time) Blue Knights (the bright and thin sounds do not mix with those that are mature players) Glassmen (the bright and thin sounds do not mix with those of mature players, many push beyond their skill level) Cracked Pitches/Articulation issues/Style (IN order) Cavies (hear few issues only on short accents and a few "accidents" here and there) Blue Coats (articulation matches well, not buying the non-stylistic jazz articulations) Madison (a strength for them, some issues related to drill) Blue Devils (some recourring phrases where tutti brass moments are not all played the same) Regiment (over blowing and thick tonguing a problem, DBL is pretty heavy) Cadets (lots or hard articulations, matched but cause some distortion) SCV (a strength for them, but few challenges for performers, not buying non-stylistic jazz articulations) Crown (seem to have only two articulation considerations, immature players distort) Boston (match pretty well, but pitch and clarity issues are many dues to tonal issues due to tongue placement) Spirit ( a lot of challenges for the many styles not being realized) Glassmen (pretty mis-matched throughout) Blue Knights (mis-matched with lots of fundamental issues that cause tone and tuning problems as well) Phrase Shaping/Dynamic Use/Communication of written intent (IN order) ** This one is the toughest for me based on the many styles there are out there. I tried not to base it on show design, but strictly the written book. Regiment (hands down doing the most here) Madison (a little surprised I feel this way, strongly reinforced by their TBA clinic the morning after the S.A. show) Blue Devils (always good here, just wish there was more variety) Blue Coats (good most times, but a little musically forced at times, the fake blues/swing bothers me) SCV (as with Blue Coats, don't like the fake jazz, the guard communicates well there , but not the music style) Cadets (some real extremes, wish there was more depth and variety) Crown (some well communicated ideas, some weak moments based on player weakness) Cavies (tough for me to feel anything based on the music alone, lots of nuance, but music could not stand alone) Spirit (not all communication the same but value the energy and excitement, some missed moments) Glassmen (trying hard to communicate musicall and have soem moments of maturity, many moments of immaturity) Blue Knights (seems a jumble music message, that is fooling many based on its good pcing of events and guard support) Boston (same issues as Cavies, but with less content) I tried to not evaluate based whether I like the show or not. This process actually helped me enjoy and appreciate more shows. I understand that judges give credit to challenges when they are met, but during this process, I found myself paying more attention to what each line was playing as opposed to just counting ticks. When seeing the recaps from Atlanta, I am still very surprised by brass performance placements. Madison in 10th is the most shocking. Though not my favorite corps of all time, they seem to be getting knocked in areas they should not. I was not at the show, so my opinion is only based I what I did see of them prior. Madison and SCV are two corps I have seen more than twice. As listed earlier, I attended Scout's brass clinic at TBA. My assessment of their brass line was strong the night before. I was very surprised to see their score in the day show 17.1 drop to a 16.3 in the evening show. I went to their clinic not knowing what to expect. I was blown away. I do know they were just standing still, but the attention to all details I have listed earlier was truly impressive. As a judge, I know that it is hard to not let the corps overall all rank not influence you. It takes a mature judge to place a lower placing group over a higher placing group in one caption. Shouldn't be this way, but it is. Notice that the ordinals at finals are rarely radical. Percussion seem to have the most room for placing differently than the over-all corps. This has happened in the percussion caption for several decades. I will attend several more shows between now and finals: extended vaction is a good thing, seeing drum corps is a great thing. Hope this creates some healthy discussion and possibly gives each horn line its deserved attention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halcyon122 Posted July 30, 2006 Share Posted July 30, 2006 Overall demand of the music book: (In order)Madison Regiment Cadets Blue Coats Spirit Blue Devils Blue Knights SCV Cavies Glassmen Crown Boston Overall physical demand: (In order) Madison Phantom SCV Cadets Blue Devils Blue Knights Spirit Blue Coats Cavies Crown Glassmen Boston It's really hard to take you seriously looking at this... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jblamb1401 Posted July 30, 2006 Share Posted July 30, 2006 I played with your rankings and averaged them. 1 Madison 3 2 Blue Coats 3.714285714 3 Phantom 3.857142857 4 Blue Devils 3.857142857 5 Cavies 4.285714286 6 Cadets 5.428571429 7 SCV 7.142857143 8 Crown 7.571428571 9 Spirit 8.714285714 10 Boston 9.428571429 11 Blue Knights 9.857142857 12 Glassmen 11.14285714 Interesting... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jblamb1401 Posted July 30, 2006 Share Posted July 30, 2006 It's really hard to take you seriously looking at this... I think the Cavies' music book is about the easiest in the top 12 this year. I've heard it about 4 times and found it completely un-memorable and almost boring. Now the drill... that's a different story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phan77 Posted July 31, 2006 Author Share Posted July 31, 2006 Though I respect that everyone should be allowed their opinion, I am always eager to know the basis of their stand. Please notice that I had Cavies at the top of most categories. I am courious as to whether you feel that the two categories you listed are based on what has been the norm of past adjudication and total show success (reputation). Isn't it possible for horn lines to have different strengths? Isn't possible for a cleaner performance to be part a result of level of difficulty, musically and physically? Isn't it also possible that the 12th place corps has a harder book and harder drill that the first place corps? Are you using a many elements drill design and music writing for your opinion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustABandMom Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 Cracked Pitches/Articulation issues/Style (IN order)Cavies (hear few issues only on short accents and a few "accidents" here and there) Blue Coats (articulation matches well, not buying the non-stylistic jazz articulations) Madison (a strength for them, some issues related to drill) Blue Devils (some recourring phrases where tutti brass moments are not all played the same) Regiment (over blowing and thick tonguing a problem, DBL is pretty heavy) Cadets (lots or hard articulations, matched but cause some distortion) SCV (a strength for them, but few challenges for performers, not buying non-stylistic jazz articulations) Crown (seem to have only two articulation considerations, immature players distort) Boston (match pretty well, but pitch and clarity issues are many dues to tonal issues due to tongue placement) Spirit ( a lot of challenges for the many styles not being realized) Glassmen (pretty mis-matched throughout) Blue Knights (mis-matched with lots of fundamental issues that cause tone and tuning problems as well) Very interesting. Thank you for the information and the analysis. I have a son who marches trumpet, and I've been pondering why the different corps are scoring as they do in brass; but having no training, I am certainly unable to make any determinations. All of your categories are explained well, however, the ranking of the category above was unclear to me. Is the ranking in order of the MOST Cracked Pitches and Articulation Issues (as it appears to be to me) or the LEAST? Also, just as a general comment on the performances in Atlanta, I was struck by the beautiful, rich sound of the Bluecoats' brass. Don't know if it was the music, arrangement, or intonation (or all of the above), but it was really quite striking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phan77 Posted July 31, 2006 Author Share Posted July 31, 2006 My analysis is reported in order of strongest to weakest. This is also my opinion and may not be shared by judges. Someone on this thread also averaged my rankings, giving each category equal weight. That is not my intenet nor is it how the judges may be determining their rankings. I am simply trying to give each horn line its rightful credit for different areas that I feel should be considered. To be honest, knowing the musical and instructional backgrounds of many of the brass judges, their rankings for brass performance are probably primarily based on ticks (mistakes). The more mistakes, the lower the score. I also assume that overt shaping of motives gets points for "musicality". What is being shaped and how it is being shaped in comparison to professional performing ensembles is by and large not a consideration by many judges. Always hearing exaggerated (often grossly) shaping can be mistaken as musicality by average trained musician. Recognizing cracked notes and out of tune pitches is a fundamental skill of ALL average music educators (including well trained high school students). To justify your score based on hard cold facts is the easy way to defend the number you give and seems to be the trend in brass performance scores, thus the considerable lowering of the risks or challenges offered to most drum corps brass musicians. Blue Coats have great tone, strong stagging, matched articulations, and average drill challenges. They sale their book fairly well and I am sure are well trained. The don't take a lot of risks, but more than many. Thus their rich and well blended sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X DM Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 (edited) '' Edited July 31, 2006 by X DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X DM Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 It's really hard to take you seriously looking at this... Agree. He lost my interest when in one of his first categories he put Spirit with more " physical demand " than Cavs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hrothgar15 Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 Overall demand of the music book: (In order)Madison Regiment Cadets Blue Coats Spirit Blue Devils Blue Knights SCV Cavies Glassmen Crown Boston Joke topic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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