2006 Horn Lines

[jwillis35]

Please, please, please...what ever you write, just remember that it's

Bluecoats. One word, not two, and no capital C. Please!!! I beg of all of you.

[dckid80]

He did indicate that he has seen all of those shows live only 1x except for two.

I would be curious how those rankings would change with multiple viewings.

Also, just because the Cavies drill looks great and is executed at an extremely high level does not mean that it places difficult demand on the members(although I think it does, I have never marched a Gaines drill and don't really know)).

For those content to take shots, do your own in depth analysis.

I don't know who this guy is and don't agreee with everything he has written but at least he put some thought into it.

Edited July 31, 2006 by dckid80

[g0at]

well, let me just say this then..

I watched the cadets practice 2 weeks ago, the day before SA , and let me tell you their drill movES!

then I watched Cavaliers practice for abot 6 hours on the day of SA... Wow..... their drill...... .. MOVES.... I spent ALOT of time watching these corps, ive been to 3 shows, Ive watched both of those shows MANY times. And I must say, cavaliers have a MUCH higher demand, I watched their visual block, and let me tell you, they have a more demanding show than spirit to say the least...

oh and what is your marching and teaching backround?

Edited July 31, 2006 by g0at

[Phantombari1]

I don't think his post is outrageous, I do question some of the placements but I think the post makes for very interesting conversation and isn't total out of line.

I agree with a few things, especially about the cavies placements. I think he's dead on about that! They have an incredible sound and do many things well, it's just not the hardest book in the world. Now if you take into account the drill and the book then I think they make up ground. It's just not enough to have a top 3 hornline IMO.

They are still awesome!

That would be one of the things I question.

[DCIBrassFan]

Poor kid. I feel sorry that your teachers have not done a better job with you. I will mail you some q-tips so that you can hear better.

I am a big fan of drum corps and want everyone to do well. My hope is that the activity stays healthy because each individual corps stays healthy. There are a lot of opinions related to what makes great drum corps. One area I think that no one would argue to its value is great horn lines. This is my favorite aspect of the activity. Judging horn lines can be difficult. I have considerable experience judging and will state it is not easy. Though I have my favorite horn lines, I try to be as non-biased as possible. I have had time to follow the corps through several shows since S.A.

After being surprised by the horn scores from San Antonio, I looked at a copy of the brass performance score sheet and a copy of the placemat used for aiding the evaluation of this caption. I considered the sheets I have used in my judging past: BOA and DCI models. I went to several shows with this review of the evaluation criteria fresh in my mind. I told myself to give the judges the benefit of the doubt, thinking I had missed somethings in S.A.

I sat in almost identical places for all shows (four shows): ten to thirty or so rows up near the 50 yard line.

The DCI brass performance sheet is broken into two categories: technique and musicality.

There is also a statement written in bold across the bottom of the sheet that states that the evaulation is based on consideration of "WHAT" is being performed, and "HOW" it is being performed.

I was sure to keep detailed notes during the shows. My scoring(order) process was based on the break down of the "what" and the "how". My results are based on seeing some corps several times and others only twice.

The "WHAT"-

Who has the most difficult techniques demanded of its brass?

tempos

style changes

exposure of all sections

dynamic ranges

articulation types

time signatures or feels

range of expression or understanding required based on the content

phrase length

physical demand (a big factor )

The "HOW"-

How are they meeting the above listed challenges?

tone

intonation

balance/blend

eveness of dynamic shaping

cracked pitches

appropriate style

style/articulation player to player

appropriate phrase shaping

communication of the music's intent

Again, how are they performing what is given?

After hearing everyone, when really conscience of the previous descriptions, I was surprised as to the result of my evaluation of some groups.

The "WHAT"

Overall demand of the music book: (In order)

Madison

Regiment

Cadets

Blue Coats

Spirit

Blue Devils

Blue Knights

SCV

Cavies

Glassmen

Crown

Boston

Overall physical demand: (In order)

Madison

Phantom

SCV

Cadets

Blue Devils

Blue Knights

Spirit

Blue Coats

Cavies

Crown

Glassmen

Boston

The "HOW"

TONE (In Order)

Cavies (moments of trumpet edge on short notes)

Blue Coats (few trumpet and mello edge moments )

Blue Devils (several trumpet issues)

Regiment (some trumpet issues, many individuals over blowing)

Madison (moments of issue seem to be while running their butts off)

Cadets (some very bright sounds scattered through out the performance)

Crown (trumpets very weak at times, stuffy low brass at times, pinched mello sounds)

Boston ( each section seems to lack depth of player, issues in each section)

SCV (each section seems to lack depth of player, esp. during non-tutti moments)

Spirt (each section seems to lack depth of player, esp. during non-tutti moments, some big individual issues)

Blue Knights (seem to hide lack of depth through scoring, tone concepts very different player to player)

Glassmen (seem in a very different league thanrest of the top twelve, a lot of work to do in the area of mature tones)

INTONATION (IN Order)

Cavies ( minor chordal issues)

Blue Coats (some issues player to player on unison lines, several big major chords not locking in)

Madison (only issues seem to be the more complicated chords, few individual lapses)

Blue Devils (several trumpet tuning ouches in ff moments, tubas blow sharp at times)

Cadets (also some issues on more complex chords, several baritone ouches, tubas push sharp at times)

Regiment (more issues than I would have thought, all kinds throughout show, seem hot and cold in this area)

Crown (lack of trumpet tone also hurts intonation throughout the show, anything beyond unison or open 5th lacks)

Boston (their smart scoring hides a lot, ff moments present a lot of tuning problems)

SCV (their scoring places most harmonic responsibilitiues in the pit, when horn line has to step up tuning has issues)

Spirit (tuning issues throughout, harmonic language of the book is a challenge)

Blue Knights (very rough, in the S.A. day show, tuning was extremely poor)

Glassmen (lack of maturity player to player for traditional and non-traditional Beethoven needs much more attention)

BALANCE/BLEND (IN order)

Cavies (always good, maybe too bottom heavy pyramid of sound at times)

Blue Devils (good for most part except trumpets at times)

Crown (one thing they do consistently well, trumpets an issue often as well as baritones)

Blue Coats (lack of detail in all sections for balance seems to be getting better)

Boston (the nature of their safe book and compact drill allows for a good B/B most of the time)

Madison (some ends of forms an issue but getting much better here)

Regiment (over blowing cause issues here)

Cadets (bright sounds seem to keep there from being a blended warm sound)

SCV (many dindividuals sticking out still, drill placement an issue at times)

Spirit (depth player to player causes blend and balance issues a lot of the time)

Blue Knights (the bright and thin sounds do not mix with those that are mature players)

Glassmen (the bright and thin sounds do not mix with those of mature players, many push beyond their skill level)

Cracked Pitches/Articulation issues/Style (IN order)

Cavies (hear few issues only on short accents and a few "accidents" here and there)

Blue Coats (articulation matches well, not buying the non-stylistic jazz articulations)

Madison (a strength for them, some issues related to drill)

Blue Devils (some recourring phrases where tutti brass moments are not all played the same)

Regiment (over blowing and thick tonguing a problem, DBL is pretty heavy)

Cadets (lots or hard articulations, matched but cause some distortion)

SCV (a strength for them, but few challenges for performers, not buying non-stylistic jazz articulations)

Crown (seem to have only two articulation considerations, immature players distort)

Boston (match pretty well, but pitch and clarity issues are many dues to tonal issues due to tongue placement)

Spirit ( a lot of challenges for the many styles not being realized)

Glassmen (pretty mis-matched throughout)

Blue Knights (mis-matched with lots of fundamental issues that cause tone and tuning problems as well)

Phrase Shaping/Dynamic Use/Communication of written intent (IN order)

** This one is the toughest for me based on the many styles there are out there. I tried not to base it on show design, but strictly the written book.

Regiment (hands down doing the most here)

Madison (a little surprised I feel this way, strongly reinforced by their TBA clinic the morning after the S.A. show)

Blue Devils (always good here, just wish there was more variety)

Blue Coats (good most times, but a little musically forced at times, the fake blues/swing bothers me)

SCV (as with Blue Coats, don't like the fake jazz, the guard communicates well there , but not the music style)

Cadets (some real extremes, wish there was more depth and variety)

Crown (some well communicated ideas, some weak moments based on player weakness)

Cavies (tough for me to feel anything based on the music alone, lots of nuance, but music could not stand alone)

Spirit (not all communication the same but value the energy and excitement, some missed moments)

Glassmen (trying hard to communicate musicall and have soem moments of maturity, many moments of immaturity)

Blue Knights (seems a jumble music message, that is fooling many based on its good pcing of events and guard support)

Boston (same issues as Cavies, but with less content)

I tried to not evaluate based whether I like the show or not. This process actually helped me enjoy and appreciate more shows. I understand that judges give credit to challenges when they are met, but during this process, I found myself paying more attention to what each line was playing as opposed to just counting ticks.

When seeing the recaps from Atlanta, I am still very surprised by brass performance placements. Madison in 10th is the most shocking. Though not my favorite corps of all time, they seem to be getting knocked in areas they should not. I was not at the show, so my opinion is only based I what I did see of them prior. Madison and SCV are two corps I have seen more than twice. As listed earlier, I attended Scout's brass clinic at TBA. My assessment of their brass line was strong the night before. I was very surprised to see their score in the day show 17.1 drop to a 16.3 in the evening show. I went to their clinic not knowing what to expect. I was blown away. I do know they were just standing still, but the attention to all details I have listed earlier was truly impressive.

As a judge, I know that it is hard to not let the corps overall all rank not influence you. It takes a mature judge to place a lower placing group over a higher placing group in one caption. Shouldn't be this way, but it is. Notice that the ordinals at finals are rarely radical. Percussion seem to have the most room for placing differently than the over-all corps. This has happened in the percussion caption for several decades.

I will attend several more shows between now and finals: extended vaction is a good thing, seeing drum corps is a great thing.

Hope this creates some healthy discussion and possibly gives each horn line its deserved attention.

[Tone Quality Matters]

You are entitiled to your way of interpreting a particular show, but I think the activity is much easier to review than how you present it.

I always answer 7 simple questions with a given horn line performance:

1) Is the hornline listening down, and maintaining pitch center?

2) What is the overall tone quality?

3) Are they hitting attacks and releases?

4) Is everyone contributing?

5) Are they sustaining phrases with proper breathing?

6) Are they maintaining upper body control?

7) Does tone color change when the line utilizes upper dynamic levels?

[euphguy]

I think the Cavies' music book is about the easiest in the top 12 this year. I've heard it about 4 times and found it completely un-memorable and almost boring. Now the drill... that's a different story.

Completely absurd. It may not have triplet-16th scales everywhere, but it's not as easy as everyone's making it out to be. Get real!!!!

[decompressed]

Completely absurd. It may not have triplet-16th scales everywhere, but it's not as easy as everyone's making it out to be. Get real!!!!

True...trumpet registers are very exposed. Lots of demand placed on sonority, blend and vertical alignment of said sonorities.

Thrown in a hornline that moves better than half the colorguards out there...

Not easy.

[90'sMelloguy]

Completely absurd. It may not have triplet-16th scales everywhere, but it's not as easy as everyone's making it out to be. Get real!!!!

Totally agree.

The hardest thing to do on a football field is make music and the cavies do that very well (along with many other corps). IMO playing a muscial phrase is a whole lot harder than playing sixteenth notes.

Besides, demand is not supposed to be factored in to the judging anymore. I have said this at least three times in the past couple days but it has not seemed to sink in....oh well