Looking at the hate

[Jeff Ream]

psst...everything you just mentioned remained unplugged.

[decompressed]

psst...everything you just mentioned remained unplugged.

OK Jeff......your Jetta can't be new anymore can it?!?!?!

:P :P

[Jeff Ream]

it's all in how you care for it :P

[MikeD]

psst...everything you just mentioned remained unplugged.

As always..."so what".

[MikeBob]

When I clicked on this thread, I was hoping it would be more of an objective analysis of The Cadets Question than another (mostly) well-reasoned argument. I don't think anything new has really been said here, but as others have commented, at least it's said well, and it gave Boo a chance to clear up that "Marching Band = Drum Corps" business, which is pretty important.

We're not going to know what's "innovative" and what's a "failure" right away. It'll take years. If there had been Classic Countdowns in 1994, I do not believe '93 Star would've made it in. And yet today, it's almost a given that '93 Star set a new standard for the activity.

In 1991, the Freelancers, to use a personal example, started the season performing what we called "Drum Corps in the Round." The first set was the same as the last set -- we could start anywhere and finish anywhere, Finnegan's Wake-style! We had interchangeable bits of uniforms, too: black gloves, white gloves, black plumes, white plumes.... Did other corps start doing that? No. Were even we still doing that by the end of the season? No. Does anyone even remember it? No. It was an idea that, and I hope my fellow Freelancers will forgive me for saying so, failed. Interesting, but unworkable (there's a reason you don't end with the drum feature and open with the ballad). Will these Cadets shows go down as '93 Stars or "Drum Corps in the Round"? We won't know right away. Give it time. If the entire activity ends up being overtaken by vocals and electric guitars and clarinets, something else will happen. Maybe a Combine for the 21st century, which will give way to a simpler, acoustic brass and percussion competitive circuit. But it's never, ever going to be like it was.

Incidentally, I'm not a fan of the new "Up With People" Cadets. I watched '85, '87, and '88 Garfield last night. I love those shows. I'm probably stuck in the '80s when it comes to this corps (and the early '90s, but...). But it's clear to me that just isn't who they are anymore. The blank-faced, inscrutable artist has given way to what I feel is some frankly pandering entertainment. And a lot of people go for it, which is great, but I don't, and a lot of kids are brought into drum corps with their shows, which is also great, but if I were a kid I still wouldn't be a fan. The "new" '80s Garfield to me is SCV, which is convenient for me because I've always loved SCV anyway. Cesario called Vanguard "the teacher" on the Classic Countdown, and I agree. I love being in their class. I just miss being taught by the Cadets.

Anyway, the real reason I wanted to reply in the first place was to point out that the OP's statements about PC are wildly inaccurate. They are not a Division II corps; they've been competiting in Div. I for years now, and even made Div. I Semifinals in what, 2002? 2003? Second, they're not "unknown." Are you kidding me? How much fuss is kicked up on this site alone about them every year? The hype, the backlash, the complaints about their part-time model, the anticipation about seeing them anyway... trust me, they're well-known. I know you, Rusty, have been out of the loop for a while (since '93, you said), but PC is well-known. They may not be in the hunt for 12th, but they're not as obscure as they used to be (say, in '93).

[Jeff Ream]

As always..."so what".

yeah electricity is just a little thing

[Rusty]

The Cadets have certainly chosen these past two years to add BOA design elements into a DCI show, but the resulting shows have hardly been inaccessible, unmelodic or abstract.

The Cadets brought you this in 2005:

I rest my case.

It's also false to claim that Hoppy uniquely influences DCI. Let's remember that the Cadets have won but a single title since 2000. Have they really had more influence on the activity than Jeff Fiedler's Cavaliers who have 3 titles and 2 silver medals during the period? I've seen far more corps copying aspects of the Cavies' visual programs than I have any aspect of the Cadets' recent shows.

And how about their percussion programs? Can we expect more "vocal" drum solos in the near future?

As noted in the DCW article, by 2002 shows had overall wandered into the abstract. Fan-friendly shows had become the exception to the rule.

If anything, the Cavies help reinforce my point. Look, who doesn't like watching a Cavaliers show? But their shows are built around their trademark drill, in some cases (2000-2003, 2006) literally. The result is music that pretty much becomes sound bites for the visual program. I love watching Cavies this year, and as usual they're championship contenders. But does anybody like listening to them? I think Nikk Pilato's description of their book--"soulless"--is pretty apt.

Again, if it was just the Cadets and Cavies alone, that would be one thing. But I don't want to watch the Cadets, Cavies and 6-7 of their clones on the field every year. That's the problem.

George only gets to make rule changes when he can persuade other directors to vote for them. Any of the changes you mention (Bb horns, amps, etc.) only passed because MANY directors felt they were the right move for the activity to make.

And apparently it takes insane persuasion on his part. Why else does he make the same proposals year after year after year? Why can't he let issues like electronics and woodwinds alone once they're defeated? Again, the most controversial changes that have come to the activity haven't come from the activity--they've come from a single corps director. I submit that isn't evolution at all, but somebody with an agenda.

[Rusty]

Anyway, the real reason I wanted to reply in the first place was to point out that the OP's statements about PC are wildly inaccurate. They are not a Division II corps; they've been competiting in Div. I for years now, and even made Div. I Semifinals in what, 2002? 2003? Second, they're not "unknown." Are you kidding me? How much fuss is kicked up on this site alone about them every year? The hype, the backlash, the complaints about their part-time model, the anticipation about seeing them anyway... trust me, they're well-known. I know you, Rusty, have been out of the loop for a while (since '93, you said), but PC is well-known. They may not be in the hunt for 12th, but they're not as obscure as they used to be (say, in '93).

My bad on the division. But again, they rarely get out of California, which is unfortunate. They've come to Phoenix a couple of times, and I always enjoy it when they do.

[Rusty]

The 1993 Sky Ryders left behind their crowd pleasing style for an esoteric show of modern wind music that left many people scratching their heads. They even had a screenprinted graphic overlay velcroed over their cadet-style uniforms. Therefore it was original poster RUSTY who is actually responsible for the death of drum corps, and not George Hopkins.

Dang it! How did you figure out my evil plot?

[Tekneek]

All of this aside, I would probably really enjoy this year's Cadets if they drop the use of amplification for anything besides the pit instruments and didn't have quite so many props in the show. I say I would probably enjoy it, because I cannot be so certain after being so distracted by all the props and amped vocals that I wasn't able to focus on the real drum corps stuff that may have been happening underneath.

I loved Cadets in 2000, at the last show I had attended prior to last weekend's DCI show in Atlanta. I knew when I saw them the first time that they were likely to win it all with that show and I still enjoy it today. What I saw Saturday night was drum corps overload. I do feel bad for the kids. They deserve more, but I believe they are fighting an uphill battle because of design decisions (and perhaps agendas) that the staff of the corps put on them.