Looking at the hate

[Michael Boo]

...

I for one have no problem with Hopkins (or any other director) pursuing their vision of drum corps. However, there have to be safeguards against one person coming dominating the activity. Let's face it, Hopkins has become the Bill Gates of drum corps (insert obvious money joke here) and The Cadets are Windows. Whatever they do becomes the "industry standard" whether it's good or bad.

...

If George really was the "Bill Gates of drum corps" and The Cadets were Windows, The Cadets would have won twelve of the past ten DCI World Championships and all the other top corps would sing "O Holy Name" at any of the other shows they were "allowed" to win (pre-Championship, of course) to avoid the appearance of monopoly.

As for <<However, there have to be safeguards against one person coming dominating the activity>>, I've seen Jeff Fiedler speak as Chairman of the Board at DCI BOD meetings, and George is sitting in the same room, so I know they're not the same person. I'm pretty sure I've even seen George drink a glass of water while Jeff spoke.

[drumcat]

So, let's play Devil's Advocate to the original post, if you don't mind...

GH has 2 of 21+ votes, correct? He does have more votes, but them's the rules. However, 2 votes does not pass a rule.

Inaccessible and esoteric to whom, the 15,800+ in ATL Saturday? Hardly declining attendance.

The challenge I leave is this: you may have a feeling or hunch about a disconnect that exists between fans and The Board and associated show selections. Ya, maybe. But how can you be sure it's *so* significant that you can pin this on GH's rule changes that he got 10 other directors to go along with?

DC=MB is a bit of a misnomer, and we all know it. But that doesn't mean that marketing has to somehow be elitist. Stadiums get filled with those that appreciate the artform, and the largest segment is still and will always be current HS band members. That's the demo, and it's the demo that oh so many advertisers want to crack.

I know you're calling it "hate", but I might call it a little bit of "sky is falling". Maybe there are some things that can be done to move away from visually driven shows, thus putting more emphasis on musical selection, but "deregulating" has done a world of good in many respects. I don't think you'd suggest we go back to set tempo ranges, right?

Food for thought... ^0^

Edited August 1, 2006 by drumcat

[vferrera]

If George really was the "Bill Gates of drum corps" and The Cadets were Windows, The Cadets would have won twelve of the past ten DCI World Championships and all the other top corps would sing "O Holy Name" at any of the other shows they were "allowed" to win (pre-Championship, of course) to avoid the appearance of monopoly.

As for <<However, there have to be safeguards against one person coming dominating the activity>>, I've seen Jeff Fiedler speak as Chairman of the Board at DCI BOD meetings, and George is sitting in the same room, so I know they're not the same person. I'm pretty sure I've even seen George drink a glass of water while Jeff spoke.

Yet the Cavaliers have adopted all of the changes that Hopkins has introduced. I would not be surprised if Cavaliers have a singer next year. Depends on how high Cadets place this year. I would not be surprised if they end up 2nd, right on the heels of Cavies.

[Long Time Fan]

My interest in this activity goes back even further than yours. My first show was in Hawthorne, NJ, in 1973. Sure the activity has changed. Yes, there have been instruments of change such as Star of Indiana. Yes, it has been controversial when these changes have been brought forward. This is not new. Yes, we lose some and gain others. But let's put some things in perspective.

We have less corps and find it harder to field a corps because this is not 1970 any more. We can no longer put a corps on the field that is sponsored by a Boy Scout Troop or a Church. They could never raise the funds. Some of this is because of the DCI rule changes, and the pure existence of DCI itself. However, most of the rule changes that are in place are because of abuses the were inflicted upon marching members in a too-loosely policed activity. The Magic of Orlando in 1999 is an exellent example of that. Poor or no transportation. Inadequate food. They shut down after that season. But it went on too long. Because of that, it is much tougher to get a corps started and into Div I now. You have to show the finances.

The major reason for a corps being so expensive is due to our society now. The stadanrd of a division I corps is significantly higher than it used to be. We will not tolerate (and cannot tolerate) letting things run the way they were back then. Schools have had to pay this price of "modernization" and so has drum corps. In terms of paid staff, quality of transportation, insurance, instruments, uniforms, multimedia, etc., everything is a step up. The players are the same, but everything around them has changed. Can we go back. I wish, but no.

Regarding the quality of the shows, I could not disagree more. The Cadets and what they have been doing the last several years is an aboration. Yes they have influenced some corps to follow. But only for a year or two. I just got back from Atlanta, and I think that almost every corps improved from last year with the Cadets being the most noteable exception. Of the corps I saw, some shows (Cavaliers, BD and PR) would stand up against any show from any era. Yes each has its weakness, but none are uniform in what they are lacking. All are totally accessable to the new fan and the expreienced vet.

George Hopkins wants change. He will get what changes the other corps are willing to tolerate. Yes, some corps will copy the Cadets success, particularly after last year. But there are corps like the Cavaliers, Blue Devils and Phantom Regiment who know who they are, and will use what works and avoid change for change sake. GH is not the great satan. He is good for Drum Corps, provided that there are others like Jeff Fiedler and Dave Gibbs who work to their own standards and use what works. We either change, or we stagnate. We need new fans. Change brings new fans. The activity needs to stay fresh. Amps as used by most corps have been good for the activity. It will take a while for other corps to figure that out.

[NakedEye]

First, let me get all my cards on the table. I marched Sky Ryders '92-'93.

The 1993 Sky Ryders left behind their crowd pleasing style for an esoteric show of modern wind music that left many people scratching their heads. They even had a screenprinted graphic overlay velcroed over their cadet-style uniforms. Therefore it was original poster RUSTY who is actually responsible for the death of drum corps, and not George Hopkins.

:sshh:

[gellio]

You raise a lot of good points. I don't view at as hatred towards the Cadets, but rather we are all passionate about this activity. When I look at the Cadets show this year, I just think, "What a shame!" A shame because w/o the vocals, I would like this show a lot. I am still a big fan of the Cadets, despite this year's direction. I just listened to 1996 and 1998 - two of my favorite Cadet shows today, and it just makes me wish they'd continue to do what they do best - march and play.

Re: Star 1993. I hated the show, until just yesterday if fact. I was walking home and in the mood for some Star - I am a huge fan of the 1989-1992 shows. Low and behold, the only show in my iPod was 1993. I thought, "How'd that get in there?" So, I listened to it, and I don't know why, but yesterday I got it. Brilliant, entertaining, magnificant. I still like 1991 better, but sometimes these things take a long time. Until 2002, I hated the 1991 show as well, now (along with SCV '98) it's my favorite show ever.

I was at 2001 finals. As much as it hurt, I have to say Madison placed exactly where they should have. Did I think they outplayed Crown? They blew Crown away (musically), but Crown blew Madison away visually - so I thought the judges got it right. I'm not thrilled with Madison this year - loved last year - but I think it's kakaboody bull that they can't be entertaining and competitive - Phantom and Bluecoats (to name a few) do it.

In my finals weeks reviews this year, I will no doubt blast the Cadets for their vocals. But, I will also likely praise them for their marching, playing, and colorguard. As much as I'd like them to be 5th, I don't think they'll end up there or deserve to be there. We'll see.

[X DM]

This was a reasoned and intelligent thread. I happen to concur with many of the sentiments. If there is a silver lining for those who do not like the direction that Mr. Hopkins intends to take the activity, it is that this season, his Corps , The Cadets and the Crossmen have collectively been in their worse competitive position in recent memory. The Cadets look to be out of the hunt for the DCI Title ( which is their pre season competitive goal ), and the Crossmen seem to be out of a Finals spot. Clearly, there has been an attrition of talent available to the Cadets and the Crossmen in this off season compared to previous years. Thus, there appears to have been a backlash to Hopkins and this has filtered down and has had an effect in their competitive standing. One can not overestimate the effects of this. Perish the thought if the Cadets repeated as DCI Title Champions this year, and if the Crossmen remained a solid Finalist Corps which historically has been their position most years. From that position of competitive strength would give rise to increased leverage in advancing his future agenda. My hope is that prospective parents and their kids in this off season will continue to reevaluate whether The Cadets Show and this Corps Director's direction for the future of this activity is in keeping with their personal beliefs and goals. If it is, then fine. If it's not, look at other Corps that would just love to have them on the competition field next year. Corps that as much as possible try and initiate the right blend of innovation and tradition without sacrificing class and sophistication in their show design and themes. If the Cadets finish say 10th next year, that, more than anything else, might just motivate this Corps Director to rethink some of his proposals for the future of his own Corps and certainly before that of the larger activity itself. ' Just a thought anyway.

Edited August 1, 2006 by X DM

[Jeff Ream]

i'm no fan of YEA or what George wants to do o drum corps, but i would never condone anyone doing what these morons did. if nothing else, maybe a call to the cops would scare these idiots a little and make them think before they drunk dial

[NIGHTFLY3000]

I can't even fathom how much time and money amplification has added on to the activity, now with even a sound guy needed to keep everything balanced during the show... How is that drum corps? Even if a marching member placed their horn down on the ground and marched to the soundboard to make an adjustment, it's still ridiculous... At what point was it decided that the balance and sound of a live drum corps show should be determined by a staff member sitting on the sidelines in front of a soundboard listening to a show through headphones? At what point was it decided that the show should NOT be determined by the kids that bleed, sweat, and push their bodies beyond the conceivable limits to get 20,000 people to stand up in August?

Oh man, you couldn't be more right on than that! And all of it to appease one man's desire and everyone else following like sheep! It's time for the DCI directors to wake up and UNPLUG! Don't be surprised if Hoppy himself goes a more "traditional" route next year just to avoid technical issues.

Edited August 1, 2006 by NIGHTFLY3000

[decompressed]

I think that the Cadets are in fine shape for future members. In Atlanta, the band students ate their show up and gave them some pretty large ovations, second only to Cavies. So....I don't think they are too concerned about the amps or show concepts. I think most kids just want to march in a kick ### drum corps that the Cadets and all the others are.

As for amps in general I can only ask you this:

Why switch from two valves to three?

Why switch from bugles to B-flat?

Why switch from 128 members to 135?

Why take timpani off the field and put them in the front sideline?

Why change from the tick system to a more subjective approach?

Why elminate the timed show with the gunshots at the end so corps can rip paint w/o fear of penalty?

All are easy to answer (including amps):

Because the directors of the corps all of us love (and i guess, some hate) decided AS A GROUP that it was good for the advancement of the activity. I trust them a lot more than i trust myself or anyone else griping from behind a computer monitor.

As always...my 2 cents.

Peace!