New Column - Inside the Arc

[Kamarag]

Yes, I find what people have to say more valid if it aligns exactly with my viewpoint, too. It would be a lot of fun to see some of the reactions from people who agree with everything Frank said if George Hopkins came out with an editorial saying something very different. His credentials are pretty good, too, and therefore should hold more validity than most people who post in here, too. Something tells me, I'd see more than a little hypocrisy.

Anyway, sorry to interrupt. I look forward to Frank's next piece.

That's a stunning amount of BS for such a short paragraph.

George's views (many of which I agree with, many of which I don't) have nothing to do with Frank's. The original point is that in the DCI forums that people are so afraid to post for fear of being assaulted is that those shows are BORING...the drum corps equivalent of listening to paint dry.

There, I've said it. Most shows in DCI these days, including my beloved Blue Devils, are about as exciting as waiting for a bus. It doesn't take two Emmy trophies and nine nominations to tell me that either, but god bless Frank for having the balls to do it himself.

Edited September 22, 2006 by Kamarag

[Lance]

That's a stunning amount of BS for such a short paragraph.

George's views (many of which I agree with, many of which I don't) have nothing to do with Frank's. The original point is that in the DCI forums that people are so afraid to post for fear of being assaulted is that those shows are BORING...the drum corps equivalent of listening to paint dry.

There, I've said it. Most shows in DCI these days, including my beloved Blue Devils, are about as exciting as waiting for a bus. It doesn't take two Emmy trophies and nine nominations to tell me that either, but god bless Frank for having the balls to do it himself.

I didn't try to compare their views. The person I was addressing said that good credentials = "more validity." I just pulled out a controversial name whose drum corps credentials are first rate, yet I would speculate that a lot of people who talk up Frank's credentials as lending "more validity" to his statements would respond tos omebody like Hopkins saying the opposite with statements far more vitriolic and dismissive of credentials than anything Frank has gotten so far.

I'm sure many of the tunes and shows you like would be far less entertaining for me than waiting for a bus or listening to paint dry. And that's okay. These are opinions, nothing more and nothing less.

On to post more BS somewhere else. Wow. :lolhit:

[Dale Bari]

I didn't try to compare their views. The person I was addressing said that good credentials = "more validity." I just pulled out a controversial name whose drum corps credentials are first rate, yet I would speculate that a lot of people who talk up Frank's credentials as lending "more validity" to his statements would respond tos omebody like Hopkins saying the opposite with statements far more vitriolic and dismissive of credentials than anything Frank has gotten so far.

Well, I think the equation good credentials = more validity is axiomatic. (I removed his qualifying quotes around the more validity phrase. Could it be he disagrees with that concept?) When Oprah has some expert on her show to explain why eating vegetables is good for you, she does stress that expert's credentials so that his/her point is taken seriously. When any network newscast puts on a story about virtually any topic, they usually include some expert (along with their credentials) to make sure you, the viewer, take a credible view of the story's point. (Hmm, CREDentials, CREDible - something is eerily similar there.)

OK, so Lance wants to trot out the old "dueling experts" meme. Well, let's see, we have George Hopkins vs Frank Dorritie.

Mr. Dorritie (according to DCP itself):

Performed with Billy Cobham and Maynard Ferguson (presumably with others as well).

Produced CDs for Wynton Marsalis (presumably for others as well).

DCA I&E Champion in recent years (including the most recent).

Has published a well-read (in its circles) brass-playing method book.

Instructed/arranged for BD, SCV, Cadets, Cavies, Bushwackers, Bridgemen.

Drum corps Hall of Famer.

Chairs a college department in his area of expertise.

Has 2 Grammys (and nominated 7 other times).

Mr. Hopkins:

Instructed Cadets 1979-1983.

Director of Cadets, nine-time DCI champion, since 1984.

DCI Hall of Fame (1997).

Executive Director of Youth Education in the Arts (YEA!)

Founder US Scholastic Band Association.

(Honestly, I looked for CREDentials to CREDit to Mr. Hopkins, this is all I found.)

Game, set, and match to Mr. Dorritie.

While, Mr. Hopkins is undoubtedly a fine administrator, can assemble and manage a world-class drum corps, and spins off a whirlwind of ideas for drum corps (some legit, some not so much), on the topic of music itself, I think it's a no-brainer whose credentials should trump there.

It also seems axiomatic that some folks in the DCI area of DCP cannot keep themselves in check when someone with talent, training, and success to back up his opinions (e.g. an EXPERT) contradicts their tightly-held shibboleths. As Fran was saying, they dismiss him out of hand, without any examination of the grounds for his point of view, at the very least, all the way to barely-checked outright hostility.

And the projection, without any supporting evidence, of their attitudes and behavior onto those of us here, in this parallel thread, is also highly telling. (i.e. when Lance types, "yet I would speculate that a lot of people who talk up Frank's credentials as lending "more validity" to his statements would respond tos omebody like Hopkins saying the opposite with statements far more vitriolic and dismissive of credentials than anything Frank has gotten so far.")

I would, myself, therefore speculate that Lance is quite a bit defensive about his role in the conversation on the DCI side of this topic, hence, his attempt to stir up some trouble on this side of the fence. Suffice it to say, that dog won't hunt.

As for my take on Mr. Dorritie's article: Amen!

Edited September 25, 2006 by Dale Bari

[Shenandoah Vibrato]

Well, I think the equation good credentials = more validity is axiomatic. (I removed his qualifying quotes around the more validity phrase. Could it be he disagrees with that concept?) When Oprah has some expert on her show to explain why eating vegetables is good for you, she does stress that expert's credentials so that his/her point is taken seriously. When any network newscast puts on a story about virtually any topic, they usually include some expert (along with their credentials) to make sure you, the viewer, take a credible view of the story's point. (Hmm, CREDentials, CREDible - something is eerily similar there.)

OK, so Lance wants to trot out the old "dueling experts" meme. Well, let's see, we have George Hopkins vs Frank Dorritie.

Mr. Dorritie (according to DCP itself):

Performed with Billy Cobham and Maynard Ferguson (presumably with others as well).

Produced CDs for Wynton Marsalis (presumably for others as well).

DCA I&E Champion in recent years (including the most recent).

Has published a well-read (in its circles) brass-playing method book.

Instructed/arranged for BD, SCV, Cadets, Cavies, Bushwackers, Bridgemen.

Drum corps Hall of Famer.

Chairs a college department in his area of expertise.

Has 2 Grammys (and nominated 7 other times).

Mr. Hopkins:

Instructed Cadets 1979-1983.

Director of Cadets, nine-time DCI champion, since 1984.

DCI Hall of Fame (1997).

Executive Director of Youth Education in the Arts (YEA!)

Founder US Scholastic Band Association.

(Honestly, I looked for CREDentials to CREDit to Mr. Hopkins, this is all I found.)

Game, set, and match to Mr. Dorritie.

While, Mr. Hopkins is undoubtedly a fine administrator, can assemble and manage a world-class drum corps, and spins off a whirlwind of ideas for drum corps (some legit, some not so much), on the topic of music itself, I think it's a no-brainer whose credentials should trump there.

It also seems axiomatic that some folks in the DCI area of DCP cannot keep themselves in check when someone with talent, training, and success to back up his opinions (e.g. an EXPERT) contradicts their tightly-held shibboleths. As Fran was saying, they dismiss him out of hand, without any examination of the grounds for his point of view, at the very least, all the way to barely-checked outright hostility.

And the projection, without any supporting evidence, of their attitudes and behavior onto those of us here, in this parallel thread, is also highly telling. (i.e. when Lance types, "yet I would speculate that a lot of people who talk up Frank's credentials as lending "more validity" to his statements would respond tos omebody like Hopkins saying the opposite with statements far more vitriolic and dismissive of credentials than anything Frank has gotten so far.")

I would, myself, therefore speculate that Lance is quite a bit defensive about his role in the conversation on the DCI side of this topic, hence, his attempt to stir up some trouble on this side of the fence. Suffice it to say, that dog won't hunt.

As for my take on Mr. Dorritie's article: Amen!

Credentials???? We don't need no stinking credentials! I had the honor of being on the same I & E stage as Frank on Friday September 2, 2006. I had no idea until this thread what Frank's many accomplishments are. All I know is that he practices what he preaches. His finger snap had the audience entertained and eating out of his hand, and he had not even played a note yet. His music whooed the crowd into spontaneous delight. I will never forget how Frank made me feel like part of the group. He had no idea who I was because I have not been in drumcorps since 1963 and this was my first ever I & E participation. Frank entertained the masses during and after his presentation. He is a venerable ambassador of entertainement.

Edited September 25, 2006 by Shenandoah Vibrato

[MelloRick]

I will add my 2 cents now. Drum corps has been in my blood since I was born. I have always loved it for what it was. I did find myself agreeing many times with Mr. Dorritie's article, and thought it was head on! I do believe, however, that the judging system does now, and always has dictated what direction drum corps moves. As a member of the 78 North Star, I remember what that meant. It pretty much meant no matter how good we were we could NEVER place much higher than 9th or 10th, because we didn't do the kind of show the judges preferred we move in. Right wrong of indifferent, made no difference to me then and makes no difference to me now. I took the stage with Mass Brass this year, and got the thrill of my life performing what I liked. It kind of put my whole drum corps carreer into perspective for me. Just why do I do this? Because I like performing MY kind of music, and seeing the fans enjoy MY kind of music. Win or not, makes no difference. Sure I would have loved to have that medal around my neck, but in the end it was the response we got when the fans jumped to thier feet all at the same time. Gave me chills. I did enjoy listening to Star, but if they were 10 miles away and Mass Brass was 50, I would easlily travel the extra 40 miles to do what I enjoy doing, not what ever it is the judges seem to be rewarding. I know I am rambling, but the point is when I watched DCI this year I was bored to tears. Not because anyone was bad, but because it wasn't what I expected to see. Precision, oh sure plenty, excitement sure there was plenty, but I came away from every show wondering why it was over. I heard no begining, and no end, just a series of notes in an endless scale, and enough running around the field to take the wind from a track star. I respect each and every performer, but for me, it just left me empty. I guess I was just happy to see I was not the only one to realize that. AT first I felt guilty that I "did not like" what they performed on the field of competion, but then why should I? If I go to a concert I paid to get into and did not like it I would feel ripped off there too!

[oldbaritone]

Well, generally I'm not a big fan of what I see and hear on the field these days. But, you know, it is what it is and I am who I am. I am no great shakes as a musician. However, right now my whole family (wife, 17 yr old son, and 13 yr old daughter are all rehearsing Mozart's Requiem KV626 for three different venues. My daughter and her friends have already sung with the Yale Opera. And, when it comes time for a show on a football field, their choice would be the Renegades. And, why? Because over the years the Renegades have come out and have invited (dragged?) them out on the field with them (metaphorically speaking). Its when the audience is engaged and becomes one with the performers. Melodies are important and so are techniques, but ultimately its a matter of the performers becoming one with the audience.

Having gotten that out of my system, let me say that Frank is, in addition to being a great arranger, a really great brass instructor. He takes you inside the music. Its really an incredible experience. I might also add that he won DCA I&E soprano/tenor playing an old single valve tenor horn (sort of a slightly oversized soprano). I don't even think it had a pull slide.

Regards

Dave Tichy

[oldbaritone]

Hello again. I just want to add to my previous that I mentioned the Renegades as an example of an entertaining corps.

To illustrate the point, my family's first encounter with them was at the 2003 prelims. Their opener of Bach's Toccata in D minor almost literally blew the family away. Over the years, there were other corps that did it as well. Hawthorne, Bridgemen, Syracuse, Empire Statesmen....Don't want to shortchange anybody. And, by the way, Frank arranged Toccata.

Dave

[Kamarag]

Honestly, I don't believe Frank would have a problem with most of the DCA corps, and certainly not any in open class (I didn't see much of Class A except for Dream).

Most of the DCA corps (probably close to all) have entertainment as a priority...

[Jamesdrum007]

Credentials???? We don't need no stinking credentials! I had the honor of being on the same I & E stage as Frank on Friday September 2, 2006. I had no idea until this thread what Frank's many accomplishments are. All I know is that he practices what he preaches. His finger snap had the audience entertained and eating out of his hand, and he had not even played a note yet. His music whooed the crowd into spontaneous delight. I will never forget how Frank made me feel like part of the group. He had no idea who I was because I have not been in drumcorps since 1963 and this was my first ever I & E participation. Frank entertained the masses during and after his presentation. He is a venerable ambassador of entertainement.

As for my take on Mr. Dorritie's article: Amen!

Oh, Frank. Just being your usual instigating self, eh? BTW I LOVED your article and your take on today's drum corps music. EXCELLENT!! As I told you last month Frank"You are a wordsmith; words are your toys!!" Thank you for stimulating such enlightening dialogue here. As always, I'm proud of you!

[EKBari]

Whay is funny about the DCI board posts is that many of the posters seem to think he was ragging on wind ensemble music as a whole and he wasn't. My take is that he's tired of the cookie-cutter mentality that is pervasive in DCI. Just because corps A does a great job with that type of music, does not mean corps B,C, and D need to follow suit. If they do, more power to them, but a little common sense needs to be applied to the situation. Not every corps has the talent to pull it off. Thus, leading to his other observation: not every creative staff is as creative as they think they are.