Esperanza

[perc2100]

If you are teaching drumcorps for the money, you may want to rethink your priorities. Drumcorps is not a great money making venture and every drumcorps has money troubles at some point or another. All staff members (admin and teaching) sacrifice a lot to be apart of the activity just like the volunteers and the members do. For me, being a member of a drumcorps had such a positive experience in my life that I had to pay a debt back to the people who made it possible for me by stepping up and making it possible for the next generation. With that motivation, I don't mind paying for a flight to get out on tour or for buying a can of paint. If it helps that kids out, I'll do it.

Running a drumcorps is not a glorious job. It takes a lot of time, causes massive amount of stress, and requires total dedication. No one runs a drumcorps for the money (at least at Esperanza, the admin staff is all volunteer and has never gotten paid).

It is easy to vilify a director, but do you really think that someone who dedicates their entire life to helping 100s of kids year after year be part of a great activity like this is evil? If so, you may want to check your basis for reality. As part of an organization, sometimes decisions made in the best interests of the whole are not the same as what you would choose, but if you try to keep the kids in mind it make the stuff we deal with day to day a little more bearable. If you can only think of yourself, this may not be the activity for you. [We all have to do things on tour we would prefer not to do, but that doesn't mean they do not have to get done]

Sometimes one side of the story isn't really enough to draw a valid conclusion.

Adam,

Most of what you say, if Mapes is not lying, is a moot point. Esperanza entered into an agreement (at the least; maybe it was a contract) with Mapes to pay him a certain amount of money for his services. After that point, it is wrong/illegal for Esperanza to not pay him for his committment. If you're implying that Mapes is in the activity only for the money, that is a bold statement. But one, inevitably, that is moot.

Interesting that as a member of the corps' admin. staff you aren't denying that he is owed money, only admitting that the corps couldn't pay him. I hope that the corps has tried explaining the cituation to Mapes, and offered to make arrangements to pay him what he is owed.

[critter]

I felt the need to chime in on this a little bit. In case it matters to anyone I marched Esperanza in 2001, 2002, and 2003.

Adam Stout is (or at least was) the tour director for Esperanza and Alan Cox's(Esperanza's Director) right hand man. I wouldn't be surprised if Alan had Adam come here to post that in his defense.

Yes that is all well and good, but the admin staff is taking time off from their career to help out part-time. For the instructional staff THIS IS their career full time. And I'm sure John Mapes entered into the season as Percussion Caption Head with the understanding that he would be paid a certain amount that was settled beforehand.

You are simply trying to turn this around on somebody by twisting what actually happened and making it seem like his intentions were in the wrong place. They were not.

It is easy because he is evil. Here are a couple of examples.

On the '03 tour (which was a 4 week tour at the end of the season) my mom took her vacation to come help out with the corps. She didn't do it to be paid and knew she wasn't going to be anyway. She did it because she realized how much the activity meant to me and she wanted to be a part of it as well. She, along with another parent, were ostracized. My mom would make recipe suggestions only to be turned down harshly and told that "they knew what they were doing". She suggested that they not purchase so much perishable food at once from Sysco (food corporations that many corps use to purchase food on the road) as they would stock up and and end up throwing so much out. Wasting food and wasting money. Once again, "they knew what they were doing".

So when does Mr nice director Alan Cox step in. Finals week. He verbally berates her in front of a room full of people. To the point that she cried. After she took her time off to help. At the banquet that year all the food staff from tour got some small award and he tried to talk to me about how people disagree sometimes. Basically so he can feel clean of the whole thing even though he was in the wrong.

Another incident that occurred wasn't as bad, but still shows how much of a dick he was. I had decided not to march '04 for obvious reasons. After Esperanza's audition camp people were talking it up and I missed marching, not at Esperanza mind you, but it was my only viable option at the time. I come just to watch and Alan comes up to me and tells me, "I know you were thinking about coming back, but as you can see we obviously don't need you here"(they had over 70 horns show up to camp and ended up marching 40 something by the summer)

Ask nearly any person that marched in this corps. 95% of them will attest to how horrible a man Alan Cox is. That other 5% are the drum majors and people like Adam Stout who live up under this man's ###. As much as it sucked for the people involved who wanted a place to march I was ecstatic when his winter drum line folded. When his winter guard folded and I will be ecstatic when his drum corps will eventually fold. Because they will as long as this man is under the helm. Don't assume every bad thing you hear about a corps is hearsay. Most of it is true.

I have since found another place to march and will be marching my age out this summer with a group that I am very happy to be with. My mother also volunteered with this group last summer and only had good things to say.

Sorry for the length. I have just been holding on to this for so long and Adam's post made me feel like I had to say something.

Point-Set-Match

[noneofyourbusiness]

If you are teaching drumcorps for the money, you may want to rethink your priorities. Drumcorps is not a great money making venture and every drumcorps has money troubles at some point or another. All staff members (admin and teaching) sacrifice a lot to be apart of the activity just like the volunteers and the members do. For me, being a member of a drumcorps had such a positive experience in my life that I had to pay a debt back to the people who made it possible for me by stepping up and making it possible for the next generation. With that motivation, I don't mind paying for a flight to get out on tour or for buying a can of paint. If it helps that kids out, I'll do it.

Running a drumcorps is not a glorious job. It takes a lot of time, causes massive amount of stress, and requires total dedication. No one runs a drumcorps for the money (at least at Esperanza, the admin staff is all volunteer and has never gotten paid).

Unfortunately, there are too many people out there who think they can make a living off being a drum corps instructor. It is NOT supposed to be a career, folks. It is a youth activity (and a very small one at that) that is meant to be, first and foremost, about the members. If you want to know what it is truly supposed to be about, look at the volunteers on the cook trucks, the uniform repair folks, etc. These people all have real jobs and sacrifice their only vacation time every summer for the good of the kids. You know, those people that many of the young, inexperienced instructors take for granted?

I agree that folks who are contracted for a certain function should be paid what they are owed. BUT, they can wait in line with the other "stakeholders" for the payments. The first priority should be the safe travel, feeding, and care of the members. Once the show fees arrive from DCI after the season ends, then the staff, gas charge cards, etc. should be paid.

And, just MHO, if we keep allowing all of these public attacks against every corps that has a person come on here and whine how they were mistreated, very soon there will be no activity left to talk about. We've lost several corps already this year because of these type of actions, and now this one is put under the gun by the "experts" of DCP. Try volunteering for one of these corps before you ##### about them. Old saying about "walking a mile in the other guys shoes".

[critter]

Unfortunately, there are too many people out there who think they can make a living off being a drum corps instructor. It is NOT supposed to be a career, folks. It is a youth activity (and a very small one at that) that is meant to be, first and foremost, about the members. If you want to know what it is truly supposed to be about, look at the volunteers on the cook trucks, the uniform repair folks, etc. These people all have real jobs and sacrifice their only vacation time every summer for the good of the kids. You know, those people that many of the young, inexperienced instructors take for granted?

I agree that folks who are contracted for a certain function should be paid what they are owed. BUT, they can wait in line with the other "stakeholders" for the payments. The first priority should be the safe travel, feeding, and care of the members. Once the show fees arrive from DCI after the season ends, then the staff, gas charge cards, etc. should be paid.

And, just MHO, if we keep allowing all of these public attacks against every corps that has a person come on here and whine how they were mistreated, very soon there will be no activity left to talk about. We've lost several corps already this year because of these type of actions, and now this one is put under the gun by the "experts" of DCP. Try volunteering for one of these corps before you ##### about them. Old saying about "walking a mile in the other guys shoes".

It sounds like some corps have an issue with respecting those who do volunteer. Not treating those sacrifices with respect may also eventually destroy the activity as well.

Edited March 3, 2007 by critter

[hboyce]

Once the show fees arrive from DCI after the season ends, then the staff, gas charge cards, etc. should be paid.

Ok then. 2006 Season is over. 2007 Season has started or at least for Esperanza it starts on the 17th. So I guess if last year's staff is paid by that date everything is fine and dandy.

The first priority should be the safe travel, feeding, and care of the members[...]And, just MHO, if we keep allowing all of these public attacks against every corps that has a person come on here and whine how they were mistreated, very soon there will be no activity left to talk about.

So if a member is mistreated they should keep their mouth shut. Even though the supposed priority is to keep mistreatment from happening.

There is a reason there is such a high turnover on membership and an average age of 15 for the past few years. And it's because of people like you that feel it's ok for such mistreatments to be happening.

Bad mouthing corps (deserved) won't be the death of this activity. People like you, however, will.

[prodigal bari]

Unfortunately, there are too many people out there who think they can make a living off being a drum corps instructor. It is NOT supposed to be a career, folks. It is a youth activity (and a very small one at that) that is meant to be, first and foremost, about the members. If you want to know what it is truly supposed to be about, look at the volunteers on the cook trucks, the uniform repair folks, etc. These people all have real jobs and sacrifice their only vacation time every summer for the good of the kids. You know, those people that many of the young, inexperienced instructors take for granted?

I agree that folks who are contracted for a certain function should be paid what they are owed. BUT, they can wait in line with the other "stakeholders" for the payments. The first priority should be the safe travel, feeding, and care of the members. Once the show fees arrive from DCI after the season ends, then the staff, gas charge cards, etc. should be paid.

And, just MHO, if we keep allowing all of these public attacks against every corps that has a person come on here and whine how they were mistreated, very soon there will be no activity left to talk about. We've lost several corps already this year because of these type of actions, and now this one is put under the gun by the "experts" of DCP. Try volunteering for one of these corps before you ##### about them. Old saying about "walking a mile in the other guys shoes".

Again, this is defending bad practice...and maybe even illegal. If you cannot pay them, do not hire them. If you hire them for pay, pay them. If you cannot manage the business operations of a corps properly, NO MATTER HOW GREAT A TEACHER YOU ARE, then DO NOT BECOME A CORPS DIRECTOR.

And I get more disgusted with people mismanaging youth groups and then cowering behind the kids saying 'But I have to take care of them first!' These ADULTS (supposedly) running these corps had better know what they are doing. Otherwise they need to face the music.

IT IS TIME FOR THE PEOPLE IN THIS ACTIVITY TO GROW UP!!!!!!

So, do not blame the instructors because the corps director was irresponsible. They have a legal right to be paid for services rendered...and to seek redress. And it is time for DCI to get off of their duffs and start demanding whatever it takes (even if it is cash escrows and checks and balances) to get the corps participating in their circuit financially responsible...and to start banning the irresponsible persons from association...and backing legal action, if need be.

I am so tired of hearing people defend the indefensible. :sshh:

Edited March 3, 2007 by prodigal bari

[eqlou]

I don't know what all the fuss is about. wake up, rehearse, eat, perform, and get drunk!

Edited March 5, 2007 by eqlou

[Lancerlady]

Again, this is defending bad practice...and maybe even illegal. If you cannot pay them, do not hire them. If you hire them for pay, pay them. If you cannot manage the business operations of a corps properly, NO MATTER HOW GREAT A TEACHER YOU ARE, then DO NOT BECOME A CORPS DIRECTOR.

And I get more disgusted with people mismanaging youth groups and then cowering behind the kids saying 'But I have to take care of them first!' These ADULTS (supposedly) running these corps had better know what they are doing. Otherwise they need to face the music.

IT IS TIME FOR THE PEOPLE IN THIS ACTIVITY TO GROW UP!!!!!!

So, do not blame the instructors because the corps director was irresponsible. They have a legal right to be paid for services rendered...and to seek redress. And it is time for DCI to get off of their duffs and start demanding whatever it takes (even if it is cash escrows and checks and balances) to get the corps participating in their circuit financially responsible...and to start banning the irresponsible persons from association...and backing legal action, if need be.

I am so tired of hearing people defend the indefensible. :sshh:

I may not know all the facts involved, but something must've happened for someone to come on here and post in public using their name, not backing down.

[Lancerlady]

Just for the record, I have been in touch with DCI every step of the way for the past six months. Dan Acheson has been great with getting back with me but always has the same response; DCI can't really do anything...........

Posting on-line has been a last resort of an on-going battle. There are many other people that are being treated the same as me, the only difference is I choose not to ignore it.

It's not about the money or going to court, it is all about an organization and a director being brought out in the open.

It is quite simple, people should not treat other people like this, and the community should not support this type of behavior.

John Mapes

Esperanza Percussion Caption Head 2002-2006

You're right Mr. Mapes, you shouldn't be treated like this. I volunteered for an organization that didn't know how to treat those who were volunteering, and I gave alot of time and got a lot of money for this corps.

The mismangement in this organization and the way they treated people came back to haunt them in the end.

Just remember what goes around....

[prodigal bari]

I don't know what all the fuss is about. wake up, rehearse, eat, perform, and get drunk! Match set point

Don't bring a tennis racket to a gunfight... :)

Even if you ARE drunk... b**bs