"Tradition" in Drum Corps

[Martybucs]

(Where did I "CRIMINALIZE" anyone? I said "How GREAT" they were.)

I didn't mean to imply that you were "criminalizing" anyone. Extremely poor choice of words on my part.

My apologies.

[JoeBas]

Tradition comes from the people who have marched before...the Alumni! If you are concerned about "your" corps tradition then, as an alumni, you should get involved! Be on support staff, talk with current members, tell stories from when you marched, support the corps with donations, support current members by helping to pay their fees, just show up to a camp weekend with your old corps jacket on, join in and sing the corps song with the current members. There is alot that can be done... #####ing about it won't solve anything though.

yes as I am Director of the S.J.Vagabonds Alumni Drum and Bugle Corps and also go to the Alumni Association meetings

[JoeBas]

Tradition is handed down from the alumni to those that are to carry it safely on - the current staff and marching members. What many alumni feel is that the traditions handed down have been discarded, indeed some think the traditions are looked upon with contempt as not good enough for those that march and teach now.

The support of you in your chosen activity, personally and financially, well I think that's your parents' responsibility. Want the alumni in the stands cheering? Don't they do that now?

I agree the tradition should have been handed down generation to generation. The problem is, and I was part of it, most of us got uninvolved with Drum Corps when we aged out, got busy with life and raising a family. For that I appoligize. Had we as corps people stayed involved and said NO to the BANDO's, Hopkins and artsie phartsie types maybe we wouldn't be having these discussions, but I'm involved now as director of an alumni corps, and in the future hope to be part of the grass roots movement, which is now in it's infancy, of traditional style Junior corps circuits starting in the N.J., Pa., NY, Conn. area. Local corps, using VFW, AL rules, supported locally and having local circuits to start, with regional championships at the end of the season to start.

[Martybucs]

I agree the tradition should have been handed down generation to generation. The problem is, and I was part of it, most of us got uninvolved with Drum Corps when we aged out, got busy with life and raising a family. For that I appoligize. Had we as corps people stayed involved and said NO to the BANDO's, Hopkins and artsie phartsie types maybe we wouldn't be having these discussions, but I'm involved now as director of an alumni corps, and in the future hope to be part of the grass roots movement, which is now in it's infancy, of traditional style Junior corps circuits starting in the N.J., Pa., NY, Conn. area. Local corps, using VFW, AL rules, supported locally and having local circuits to start, with regional championships at the end of the season to start.

I remember watching and enjoying the Vagabonds way back when! Great corps. You sure have a wealth of drum corps talent in South Jersey to draw from and I wish you guys success.

I don't think you, me, or anybody has anything to apologize as to the course drum corps took. It was the combine and DCI that steered it that way and set the stage for what is considered drum and bugle corps today.

It doesn't help to vilify Hopkins or call people "artsie phartsie types" to show your dissatisfaction with today's corps. That kind of speech is inflammatory and better left in your circle of friends. It could also lead to the closing of what I consider a very interesting thread. There are lots of people that agree with you, but name calling is not necessary to make your point. I only mention this point in an effort to keep the thread alive a while longer to learn what people think. I know you don't mean to insult anyone, but are passionate about how much you dislike what has happened to drum corps.

For instance, I just learned from your post, of the grass roots efforts to start traditional style junior circuits. That's exciting and I hope it can come about and I think there are a lot of people that would be interested in helping. More people would be willing to help, even I believe from DCI/DCA, if they know it's real and non confrontational.

Best of luck to the Vagabonds Alumni Corps and the forming of the circuits you mentioned. Corps director!, you sure jumped in with both feet in getting re-involved with drum corps!

Edited January 18, 2007 by Martybucs

[RobH]

Martybucs - great post, man!

As a pre-DCI old schooler, who was away from Drum Corps for thirty plus years, I think that much of "what had been" that made drum corps great got sucked out of the activity when DCI was created and ended up being dominant - clearly Marching & Maneuvering has changed, the music has changed, the snare drums have changed, color pre is gone, OTL and starting guns and the tick system is gone, and thus the very things that "mattered" to us old-schoolers - the "type" of precision, of judging, and the having kids who come from the local community to join and learn something and excel in it after a few years, it's all changed.

This is NOT going to be apparent to those who are in today's vanguard in DC, who are into the whole "artsy" thing and "dancing" Color Guard and "running sideways" and snare drums you can't hear and all sound like playing on a tabletop and all, which is incredible and we could NEVER have done any of this, but in the process, the "old" DC fan and participant has been pushed aside to make way for what DC is today - and to me, it's tragic.

[MikeD]

Martybucs - great post, man!

As a pre-DCI old schooler, who was away from Drum Corps for thirty plus years, I think that much of "what had been" that made drum corps great got sucked out of the activity when DCI was created and ended up being dominant - clearly Marching & Maneuvering has changed, the music has changed, the snare drums have changed, color pre is gone, OTL and starting guns and the tick system is gone, and thus the very things that "mattered" to us old-schoolers - the "type" of precision, of judging, and the having kids who come from the local community to join and learn something and excel in it after a few years, it's all changed.

This is NOT going to be apparent to those who are in today's vanguard in DC, who are into the whole "artsy" thing and "dancing" Color Guard and "running sideways" and snare drums you can't hear and all sound like playing on a tabletop and all, which is incredible and we could NEVER have done any of this, but in the process, the "old" DC fan and participant has been pushed aside to make way for what DC is today - and to me, it's tragic.

Except that at the shows I attend I see a mix of both legacy and new fans. I would think that if you had left for a 30-year stretch at any point in time, say 55-85, or 45-75...and then came back drum corps would have been just as alien to you.

I just don't see where anyone has been 'pushed aside', unless they themselves are unwilling to accept what drum corps is....which is not either DCI or DCA's problem.

[LoveSOS]

I see it like this... all things evolve. Think about any major pro sport. They have all evolved over the years. I feel that tradition is not being left behind...the tradition of all corps (i hope) is to go out there, have a great time, learn something, entertain a crowd, perform excellence, have the feeling of adrenaline, acheivement, and satisfaction for hours of long work. THAT IS STILL THE SAME. The only thing that is different is programming (what and how things are taught and performed). The feeling at the end of the performance or at the end of the summer or at the end of a weekend is still the same...that tradition is not lost.

After my first summer of marching drum corps, i went home with my family, and I spoke of the feeling I had after knowing that I had done my best and left it on the field. My father (who marched in the mid 1970's) looked at me and said, "I know the feeling." 25 years apart, and the "tradition" or the reason we do this activity was no different. The end justifies the means.

Edited January 18, 2007 by LoveSOS

[Martybucs]

I see it like this... all things evolve. Think about any major pro sport. They have all evolved over the years. I feel that tradition is not being left behind...the tradition of all corps (i hope) is to go out there, have a great time, learn something, entertain a crowd, perform excellence, have the feeling of adrenaline, acheivement, and satisfaction for hours of long work. THAT IS STILL THE SAME. The only thing that is different is programming (what and how things are taught and performed). The feeling at the end of the performance or at the end of the summer or at the end of a weekend is still the same...that tradition is not lost.

After my first summer of marching drum corps, i went home with my family, and I spoke of the feeling I had after knowing that I had done my best and left it on the field. My father (who marched in the mid 1970's) looked at me and said, "I know the feeling." 25 years apart, and the "tradition" or the reason we do this activity was no different. The end justifies the means.

You are 100% correct.

The difference to some people is not only what you do, but how you do it. To some, the traditional way is the only way to do it, drum and bugle corps, that is. That is the essense of the debate, not the relative worth of the shows or the people that perform them.

I love traditional drum corps myself, however, I accept today's shows and totally accept that the intent and effort and indeed rewards are the same as ever for the participants.

I don't think the dissatisfaction with the type of shows that are done now is meant to disrespect today's participants, but I can see how you may take it personally as a rejection of what you do.

I tell you it is impossible to watch a show from any era and not appreciate the dedication, effort, and pride by the performers.

The sad part, for most of us, is that the kids today will never know what we did, first hand, because it is gone.

[JimF-LowBari]

After my first summer of marching drum corps, i went home with my family, and I spoke of the feeling I had after knowing that I had done my best and left it on the field. My father (who marched in the mid 1970's) looked at me and said, "I know the feeling." 25 years apart, and the "tradition" or the reason we do this activity was no different. The end justifies the means.

Great way to highlight one thing that hasn't changed over the years.

Then again I'm biased as I was marching right beside Jareds dad most of the time he did corps. b**bs Sumthin' about keeping the 2nd Baris together. B)

[MikeD]

The sad part, for most of us, is that the kids today will never know what we did, first hand, because it is gone.

Actually the members of today have a lot more opportunity to at least get an idea of drum corps of the past, even pre-DCI to an extent, than I did when I marched.

There are videos available going back to 1970...I had no idea what drum corps of 1936 looked like in 1971, while members in 2006 could, if they wished, watch the entire 1971 World Open (in B&W, of course).