"Tradition" in Drum Corps

[zorf]

That's all about design and a good relationship between the design team. Let me bring up a great example.

In 2005, we played Adagio for Strings. Clearly a time for the brass to shine. Our pit arranger wrote very minimally, and I mean very minimally. We played basically at the beginning of the song, ends of important phrases, and the huge impact before the end. Everything else was brass, and that's how it should have been. We were there for color purposes only.

If the design team's on the same page as to how to make a piece musical from all aspects, there are no "make sections quiet" from one section arranger to the next - whether or not it's said or kept to themselves.

Intelligent post. I like pits, and I started in drum corps in the early 70's when all instruments were carried on the field. I have found it interesting to read some of the commentary in the DCI section regarding Carolina Crown last year. Some have claimed that because Crown's percussion book was written in a manner that was most appropriate for the overall presentation, but not sufficiently challenging, Crown scored poorly. It must be a huge challenge for the writers to balance out the sections while still providing enough meat in order to score well within a specific category. The main problem I have with pits, especially in DCI where they are amp'ed, is that they can overpower the audio recording on the DVD's.

[Jami]

And that's a shame, because if there's one thing I've learned in recent years, between arranging, teaching, and performing, it's "he who is most musical wins" and not necessarily "he who has the most meat wins."

[Martybucs]

I think I'm confusing tradition with traditional. I don't think of pits as traditional drum corps. They weren't around until the last few years I marched, so when I think traditional, drum corps sound, I don't think of it including the pit.

I don't think I ever said, "pits suck", I don't think that at all, they're part of modern drum corps. In that sense, they are part of the drum corps tradition for at least the last 20 years. I'm OK with that.

However, personally, I prefer my drum corps without pit.

[Jami]

And that's your preference - and for the record, I never saw you say that pits suck - rather, that was another post by another person.

[Martybucs]

And that's your preference - and for the record, I never saw you say that pits suck - rather, that was another post by another person.

I just wanted to make sure people knew I didn't say they sucked.

The more I think of it though, there have been some inspiring pit moments through the years. I'll have to go back and listen.

[Vagabond Skyliner]

I think I'm confusing tradition with traditional. I don't think of pits as traditional drum corps. They weren't around until the last few years I marched, so when I think traditional, drum corps sound, I don't think of it including the pit.

I don't think I ever said, "pits suck", I don't think that at all, they're part of modern drum corps. In that sense, they are part of the drum corps tradition for at least the last 20 years. I'm OK with that.

However, personally, I prefer my drum corps without pit.

Marty

Agree.

The problem with "Todays" pit is there is toooooooooooooooo much pit. The idea of having one for a "FEW" items that would be better not carried was probably good. You know. Typms, although they were carried, could be put there. Then maybe "FEW" mallet types, one wood, one metal. Maybe a special Bell, gong type thing. What ever. Then just played during that time needed in a piece of music.

BUT, now. The pit alone, in a Div 1 group, is the size of a whole Div3 group in DCI, and coming to DCA by leaps and bounds. I hate to tell the "Designers" BUT, Every piece of Music written Does Not have: Ting, Ping, Pling, Clong, Thong, Plink, Click, Clack, and God knows more in it.

So it come down too. "Every Group", has to have Every piece of Equipment, Every other Group has. Then since they are there. They have to play FULL TIME in Every peice of music.

I am 60 years old. I can Honestly tell you. I have heard tens of thousands of pieces of music. Guess what? At least HALF, if not More, do not include "Ting,Ping,Pling,Clong,Thong,Plink,Click,or Clack" in them. Even in a Full Orchestra, some sections sit out a part if not most of a piece.

[Martybucs]

Marty

Agree.

The problem with "Todays" pit is there is toooooooooooooooo much pit. The idea of having one for a "FEW" items that would be better not carried was probably good. You know. Typms, although they were carried, could be put there. Then maybe "FEW" mallet types, one wood, one metal. Maybe a special Bell, gong type thing. What ever. Then just played during that time needed in a piece of music.

BUT, now. The pit alone, in a Div 1 group, is the size of a whole Div3 group in DCI, and coming to DCA by leaps and bounds. I hate to tell the "Designers" BUT, Every piece of Music written Does Not have: Ting, Ping, Pling, Clong, Thong, Plink, Click, Clack, and God knows more in it.

So it come down too. "Every Group", has to have Every piece of Equipment, Every other Group has. Then since they are there. They have to play FULL TIME in Every peice of music.

I am 60 years old. I can Honestly tell you. I have heard tens of thousands of pieces of music. Guess what? At least HALF, if not More, do not include "Ting,Ping,Pling,Clong,Thong,Plink,Click,or Clack" in them. Even in a Full Orchestra, some sections sit out a part if not most of a piece.

Too much pit. I agree. Sometimes, during the drum solos you can't even hear the rest of the drumline for the marimbas and bells. Tough call, though, if you're in the pit...you want to play. Comes down to writing and balance and in the case of old timers like ourselves what you're used to hearing. I can't see why you would want them amped, though.

However, hard to imagine, "Russian Christmas Music", without the bells, "1812 Overture" without a huge bass drum, or "Carmina Burana" without a big gong, etc. I do think the instruction, "tacet", could be used more often.

In anycase, the people that play in the pits are indeed people with feelings and to characterize what they do as a bunch of meaningless sounds is mean-hearted. I know you're trying to make a point and want to be humorous, (and it is, to an old school brass player and over a couple of beers), but I don't think there is a need to insult anyone. It's just a difference of opinions.

[Jami]

Couldn't have said it any better. Thanks for recognizing that there's a purpose to our section too. :)

[Geneva]

Interesting discussion about pits and traditional drum corps. I have always felt that the evolution of the pit was one of the central forces in changing the drum corps sound, approach, and style. I also agree that, while the pit can add a wonderful color and texture at times, there is often too much pit and this has been made worse by amplification.

Keyboard tonality came back into drum corps during my last season in 1974. I say "came back" because bells were used by many corps in the 50's (perhaps earlier) up until about 1964. The path for percussion tonality was blazed by corps like the Cavaliers' use of tuned rudimental bass drums and Boston Crusaders' introduction of the tuned horizontal bass then marching tympani. I found the use of bells by my corps in 1974, for the most part, to be jarring and not an augmentation to the overall corps sound. I think they were used well in parts of our show, but for the most part the presence of these players as marching members on the field created a demand situation which inevitably lead to their overuse. I found that the doubling of the melodic lines was often unnecessary and it was annoying to have this tinkling sound underlying the brass sound.

I think that the decision to allow corps to park these instruments on the sideline was appropriate if they were going to continue to be used. This took some of the incessant clanking demand away since they were no longer part of the drill and with this came more appropriate use as an augmentation. More interesting textures entered with marimbas and vibes. But as the number of players stationed in the pit grew, it seemed that once again the keyboards were developing a life of their own and playing too much. When I experienced my first over-amped pit, I was flabbergasted to hear the brass in a secondary position! Just plain wrong.

I could take this one step further in that I feel the cost of pit instrumentation was an important factor in the demise of many corps who couldn't keep up with the economic demands of modern drum corps. All this for instruments which in my opinion should be used in a support role. Look at the big picture. Is it worth it?

[Kyle B]

I am 60 years old. I can Honestly tell you. I have heard tens of thousands of pieces of music. Guess what? At least HALF, if not More, do not include "Ting,Ping,Pling,Clong,Thong,Plink,Click,or Clack" in them. Even in a Full Orchestra, some sections sit out a part if not most of a piece.

Yea, but some quick questions.

Do the performers in the orchestra pay to be in there?

Do the music numbers never change for 9 months?

Who's choice is it to sit out, the performer or the composer?

The pit is needed IMO. They are an integral part to the drum corps. So what, they've gotten bigger. I'm sure there are some percussionists out there that would like to see the hornlines made smaller so the drumline can be bigger. Or, lets say the same about the color guard. Why can't we just have 5 people on a flag/weapon so that the rest can be devoted to the hornline. (I obviously don't feel that way.)

Point is, I think the numbers that most corps, DCI/DCA have in all of their sections are usually well balanced. To put 5 people in a pit that has 75 musicians marching behind them would be insane.

Edited January 15, 2007 by BushBonez