DrumCorpsFan27 Posted March 5, 2007 Author Share Posted March 5, 2007 The instructors who taught as I described spent precious little time on the things you mention. They didn't teach you that you play G and C open, A with the valve and the rotary, etc.? How did you learn to finger the notes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 They didn't teach you that you play G and C open, A with the valve and the rotary, etc.? How did you learn to finger the notes? The instructor stood in front of a section with his own sop...he would play a short phrase for that section, showing them the fingering, and have them repeat it back. Then he'd move down to the next section and repeat with that section's notes. No attempt made to teach the players how to read music, or even WHAT notes they were playing. Just tried to get them to repeat what he fed them by rote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrumCorpsFan27 Posted March 5, 2007 Author Share Posted March 5, 2007 (edited) The instructor stood in front of a section with his own sop...he would play a short phrase for that section, showing them the fingering, and have them repeat it back. Then he'd move down to the next section and repeat with that section's notes.No attempt made to teach the players how to read music, or even WHAT notes they were playing. Just tried to get them to repeat what he fed them by rote. OK, the learning was basic, very basic. Still, something was taught and something was learned. Not a lot, but something. Yet you would not qualify it as "educational." Edited March 5, 2007 by DrumCorpsFan27 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 OK, the learning was basic, very basic. Still, something was taught and something was learned. Not a lot, but something. Yet you would not qualify it as "educational." No, because there was really no context of learning how to be a brass player...just how to play those 11 minutes worth of stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrumCorpsFan27 Posted March 5, 2007 Author Share Posted March 5, 2007 No, because there was really no context of learning how to be a brass player...just how to play those 11 minutes worth of stuff. In the school where I work, we teach kids what letters are and how to spell their names by rote without any context of how to be a novelist. I'll go tell those kindergarten teachers that they aren't really teachers and their kids really aren't students. You see my point Mike? It's just degrees of teaching at this point. What you are saying is that if the information is too basic, it doesn't count as teaching or learning. Yet, if you don't learn to buzz your lips into a mouth piece and that pushing the valves down changes the sound, you are not going to be able to learn the things you consider necessary to be a brass player, just as a kindergartener must learn that there are letters and those letters spell things before s/he learns about words, sentences, paragraphs, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornlineDiva Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 (edited) I rank two of my former DC instructors as two of the most important teachers I have ever had. I learned a lot about music and pedagogy from them. Most, though, I wouldn't consider teachers, just because I didn't personally learn anything of value from them. Music block feels so much like an indoor ensemble rehearsal sometimes, so what's the difference? The caption heads tell you one thing, then they go back to their own bands for a week in July and tell them the exact same things. So, why is one teaching, and the other just 'instructing"? Semantics: The #1 Hobby of DCP Edited March 5, 2007 by HornlineDiva Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prodigal bari Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 Semantics: The #1 Hobby of DCP You have just stolen my heart! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted March 6, 2007 Share Posted March 6, 2007 In the school where I work, we teach kids what letters are and how to spell their names by rote without any context of how to be a novelist. I'll go tell those kindergarten teachers that they aren't really teachers and their kids really aren't students. "Age-appropriate" comes to mind. And...the kids don't stop learning how to write at that point..it's an entry point to what comes after. You see my point Mike? It's just degrees of teaching at this point. What you are saying is that if the information is too basic, it doesn't count as teaching or learning. Yet, if you don't learn to buzz your lips into a mouth piece and that pushing the valves down changes the sound, you are not going to be able to learn the things you consider necessary to be a brass player, just as a kindergartener must learn that there are letters and those letters spell things before s/he learns about words, sentences, paragraphs, etc. Year in and year out of the same sort of thing...it's not like the instructor ever progressed beyond what I mentioned...the next year, with most of the same players...it was again...learn to play that year's music by rote. Don't forget, they had weekly rehearsals all winter long...time to do more than what was done. I later was a percussion arranger and instructor for the same corps. I made darn sure my timpani line could 1) read bass clef and 2) understand pitch. We worked all winter on ear training, and I insisted they memorize their music from the printed page, not by rote. The same brass person was still teaching by rote to any kids who did not know how to read music coming into the corps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madscout96 Posted March 6, 2007 Share Posted March 6, 2007 I rank two of my former DC instructors as two of the most important teachers I have ever had. I learned a lot about music and pedagogy from them. Most, though, I wouldn't consider teachers, just because I didn't personally learn anything of value from them. Music block feels so much like an indoor ensemble rehearsal sometimes, so what's the difference? The caption heads tell you one thing, then they go back to their own bands for a week in July and tell them the exact same things. So, why is one teaching, and the other just 'instructing"? Semantics: The #1 Hobby of DCP Well, they're both both. I don't think anyone is saying that drum corps instructors don't teach. Of course they teach. But that doesn't make the setting in which teaching is done an academic setting. "Age-appropriate" comes to mind. And...the kids don't stop learning how to write at that point..it's an entry point to what comes after.Year in and year out of the same sort of thing...it's not like the instructor ever progressed beyond what I mentioned...the next year, with most of the same players...it was again...learn to play that year's music by rote. Don't forget, they had weekly rehearsals all winter long...time to do more than what was done. I later was a percussion arranger and instructor for the same corps. I made darn sure my timpani line could 1) read bass clef and 2) understand pitch. We worked all winter on ear training, and I insisted they memorize their music from the printed page, not by rote. The same brass person was still teaching by rote to any kids who did not know how to read music coming into the corps. OK so perhaps you were teaching them more than the brass guy was teaching them. But still they must have learned something from this brass guy, right? I mean, if they didn't know how to play a brass instrument at all before they got there, and then they learn how with this guy (from rote or otherwise), then he taught them something. Some people think that "rote" is a 4-letter word, as in bad. But so much must initially be learned by rote, in some way or another. Someone's gotta show you how to do it. You can't play swing if you've never heard it before or not heard it enough. You can't play with good tone quality unless you've heard good tone quality and then know what you're striving for. You can't play anything in phyrigian mode unless you've heard music in phyrigian and then maybe even sung songs (by rote) in phrygian. Sorry if I'm going Gordon on you! Now, maybe this guy didn't know how to teach kids in any other way than rote. So that meant that kids who already knew how to play a brass instrument (by rote) didn't really learn much in their 2nd year, other than their show. But those 1st year kids did, and perhaps if someone was able to teach them to read music (well, teach them what the notes they're playing are first!) in their 2nd year, then they'd be learning more in the years following their first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stick Stack Posted March 6, 2007 Share Posted March 6, 2007 (edited) I'll never understand the quibbling about all of the other stuff you mentioned, either. I've always though of soprano, alto, etc as the voice, not the instrument, especially since the concept of sopranos, bases, etc have changed so may times over the past century. "Bugle" has been generic for a very long time, and I've read all of the page and pages and pages of discussion that could be summed up in 2 brief statements. As for the "Marching Music's Major League," I also have a hard time understanding the quibbling about that. If DCI isn't Marching Music's Major League, then what is? You think the term calls forth an association with marching band, but I guarantee it doesn't do that any more than for an average person hearing about DCI coming to their town, wondering what the heck drum corps is, then going online and googling it, and finding picture of people marching around with instruments, which equals, to most people, guess what, MARCHING BAND! Even worse is googling it and finding an article in a newspaper not just associating drum corps with marching band, but explicitly calling them that, which happens all the time, as we all know. "Marching Music's Major League" is nothing but a big positive, IMO, because it calls forth, more than anything else, images of an elevated performance level over the typical image of a school marching band. But, whatever. That's the beauty (?) of a discussion board, I guess. I'd like to throw this in the hopper and see what happens. I think that a corps choice between using the terms "tuition/dues/money/green stuff" and "faculty/instructors/dudes in charge" has very little impact on who marches and where they choose to march. I'd go so far as to say that, if anyting, it would be about number 999 out of 1000 in the list of priorities for the vast majority of people who march, instruct, or simply sit back and try to enjoy the show. Just so we're clear, I feel we agree about why they call it Marching Music's Major league. It is the elevated performance that is the attraction and appeals to many about drum corps. Perhaps the phrase better fits the identity. This is the best reason to change a name- when it better fits an identity or makes you understand it and see it in a clearer way. I also agree that on a list of priorities, it certainly is down there next to what type of meal they should feed the corps for lunch on July 15th of next season. I for one hope it's grilled cheese! Edited March 6, 2007 by Stick Stack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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