Loudest corps each year?

[Lance]

There's more, but I think this is enough to make my point. This theoretical state of perfect intonation cannot be maintained by a drum corps hornline in a competitive performance. There is no such thing as an "in-tune" drum corps hornline. Some are closer than others, but that's it.

So, are you saying it's an all-or-nothing proposition. Unless perfect intonation is achieved, there's no effect on perceived loudness? If that's true, then what you say holds water. If not, then very little you said really refuted the guy you quoted.

[thePerfectbuzz]

i just like good loud hornlines

[ssorrell]

our band director at the time(whom i shal call mr. director.) at once told us "NO you are not permitted to march drumcorps while a part of this program...because it will ruin you."

... but now years later, its strangely comforting to us to know that he was COMPLETELY right.

he told us this because ever since the begginning of drumcorps, playing loud seemed to be the thing to do. Mr. director had actually learned to play so loud in his 20's in a drumcorps that he eventually distended a muscle in his upper lip, whitch left him with a pretty nasty scar and permanantly hurt his playing ability on brass instruments not to mention made it painful to play for the rest of his life.

Okay...am I the only one that thinks that perhaps the problem was that the director was playing incorrectly and thus injured himself, yet somehow he blames drum corps for his lost dreams?

How did playing loud make him injure his lip? Higher volume comes from a higher velocity of air stream. It is possible for brass players to play extremely loud with no ill effects on their lips. Again, it sounds as though he might have been applying to much pressure from the mouthpiece to his lips, thus causing an injury.

Heck...if playing loud causes injuries that forces players to lose their chops for life, then we'd be hearing thousands of sad stories from alumni across the nation...yet, oddly enough, this is the first one I've heard over a span of nearly 30 years as a drum corps spectator, member, volunteer, manager, and fan.

And BTW...have you ever gone to hear Wagner played by any decent orchestra? The F-horns play at a volume louder than most drum corps can achieve. Whoever says that playing loud is "uncharacteristic" of brass instruments is sadly mistaken...IMHO.

Edited April 10, 2007 by ssorrell

[ssorrell]

so when you start a thread about "loudest hornlines" and how sweet they is, thats cool, have fun.

Well...actually that is what has been happening for 19 pages now!

but if you want to begin talking about musicianship, and mature playing, your on the wrong website entirely.

Not if you want to talk about musicianship and mature playing IN THE CONTEXT OF DRUM CORPS. That's what this site is about.

Sure...if we want to talk about baroque ensembles, Mozart requiems, or overtures by Wagner, we are indeed in the wrong place. but this is a site for drum corps fans to talk about drum corps...and shall I remind you that drum corps is made up of mostly high school and college aged kids, so you have to temper the use of the word "maturity" a little...no one expects our corps to sound like a brass quintet from the CSO.

enjoy drumcorps because thats what it is. drumcorps. really it is, and its fun as hell. but when you die and go to heaven to meet mozart, or beethoven, and you want to impress him by playing the star 93 closer, dont be surprised when he punches you in the face.

Do we have to meet Mozart or Beethoven? I'd rather look for Zingali, Gayle Royer, Bobby Hoffman, or Jim Ott. I bet they wouldn't punch anyone in the face!

[mellodramatic]

So who are the loudest corps each year?

[jake_the_hydra]

2006 Phantom, 2005 Cadets, 2004 Vanguard, 2003 Cavaliers (seriously), don't know 02, don't know 01, Cadets and Cavaliers 00, and so on.

Generally, Phantom is the loudest, it seems.

Edited April 10, 2007 by jake_the_hydra

[prodigal bari]

The elitism in some of these posts makes me sick. Hearing about what a "mature" ensemble will do, etc., is a joke.

I wouldn't consider myself just some bozo; I have a music degree in a brass instrument from a pretty highly regarded music school. That being said, there is no absolute "right" or "mature" way to play a brass instrument. I swear, some people on these boards would say that the brass section of the CSO or Met Opera Orchestra were playing with a spread tone, or "out of control." The truth is, there are many ways to pursue brass playing. Yes, intonation is always important. Blend is always important. Dynamic contrast is virtually always important. However, how one values those is NOT an objective standard. Some people think that as long as something is in tune and blended, it is God's gift to music. That's fine; whatever someone goes for. Conversely, some people like intonation and blend, but find that it is worthwhile to sacrifice a little in these regards in order to open up the available dynamic range. Again, this approach is fine; whatever matters to someone is what is right for that individual.

Where people go wrong is in insisting that their approach is the "right" one. There is no right approach as applies to all of the fans of DCI (or music in general). Yes, there is a right approach insofar as how judges want things; that is fine, and that is why certain corps have done remarkably well in the last several years. However, to insist that a certain corps plays with an objectively "better" style than another is elitist BS; it is all a matter of who is being catered to. If fan A enjoys one corps which plays really loud, but slightly out of tune, while person B enjoys another corps that plays less loudly but better in tune, neither is right. It is only a matter of priority. It is disgusting for people on either side to declare that they are "right" or "mature," however. Why issues like this even come up in a thread that simply asks which is "loudest," not which is "loudest with a sound that I like," I don't know.

As for the "in tune is always louder" argument; this generally, in practice, works out to be mostly theoretical. Yes, theoretically, a corps that is PERFECTLY in tune will be the loudest. However, this standard is virtually never met by any actual ensemble; therefore, individual projection usually trumps all. Otherwise, the Cavaliers would've easily been the loudest corps for several years now; anyone with half a brain will agree this simply wasn't the case.

What has happened is that the judging fraternity has decided that a 'brassy' or 'edgy' sound is not a legitimate brass sound...forget the fact that you find these type of sounds acceptable in standard orchestral technique and jazz. I do insist that intonation is the primary building block for sonority and volume...but if you also have the strength to combine this with good technique the result is overwhelming. It is also unacceptable in today's elitist standard.

In short, if it doesn't sound like a contemporary wind ensemble, it is not considered a legitimate brass sound. I consider this absolutely wrong.

[prodigal bari]

this is the best post ive ever read. ofcourse it will and already has been taken the wrong way.

once a long time ago i wanted to march drumcorps, i being a drummer, my brother being a tuba player we each had our own aspirations of what corps to march and what it would be like to march and how sweet it would be wherever we went. when seeing our enthusiasm our band director at the time(whom i shal call mr. director.) at once told us "NO you are not permitted to march drumcorps while a part of this program!" immediately hearbroken, we inquired why. and he replied quietly while moving on to other business, "... because it will ruin you."

this distressed and confused us becuase we respected mr. director and thought very highly of him, and his skills, and his leader ship and teaching ability. but we eventually dismissed his comments becuase we figured "well, hes almost 60, hes just old and bitter and doesnt get it."

both of us eventually marched, him as a contra and i as a percussionist. but now years later, its strangely comforting to us to know that he was COMPLETELY right. we found out later that he had actually marched WAY back in the day. the days referred to by most of the older members of this forum as the "better days" when corps were extrememly numerous and easy to become involved in.

he told us this because ever since the begginning of drumcorps, playing loud seemed to be the thing to do. Mr. director had actually learned to play so loud in his 20's in a drumcorps that he eventually distended a muscle in his upper lip, whitch left him with a pretty nasty scar and permanantly hurt his playing ability on brass instruments not to mention made it painful to play for the rest of his life.

the point is... drumcorps is young and stupid. fantastic writers and players and ensembles have been around for hundreds of years. and hundreds of years of music has taught most people that playing uncharictaristically loud is anything but artistic. in fact it sucks, its completely disguisting. brass instruments can sound so lovely, ensembles can be so perfect and create sounds that almost move the soul. and yet drumcorps for years has been cracking brass vibrating horns to pieces like its going out of style. ironically it IS out of style, it never was in style, there are a select few drumcorps that are ONLY now starting to catch on to this notion by attempting to play a horn like civilized human beings instead of turning the poor thing into a souvenir football game plastic horn by sticking their toungue the whole way through it. how this style of playing became so popular is another discussion entirely.

so when you start a thread about "loudest hornlines" and how sweet they is, thats cool, have fun. but if you want to begin talking about musicianship, and mature playing, your on the wrong website entirely.

enjoy drumcorps because thats what it is. drumcorps. really it is, and its fun as hell. but when you die and go to heaven to meet mozart, or beethoven, and you want to impress him by playing the star 93 closer, dont be surprised when he punches you in the face.

He probably wanted to keep you available for his own program. Which is sad, to say the least. <**>

[DJTuba]

Only one I saw in person was 06. That had to be Scouts in my opinion.

[jake_the_hydra]

What has happened is that the judging fraternity has decided that a 'brassy' or 'edgy' sound is not a legitimate brass sound...forget the fact that you find these type of sounds acceptable in standard orchestral technique and jazz. I do insist that intonation is the primary building block for sonority and volume...but if you also have the strength to combine this with good technique the result is overwhelming. It is also unacceptable in today's elitist standard.

In short, if it doesn't sound like a contemporary wind ensemble, it is not considered a legitimate brass sound. I consider this absolutely wrong.

three of my very favorite hornlines don't sound like contemporary wind ensembles and they meet the criteria that I've mentioned in my earlier posts. So I have to disagree.

And if you're referring to the judging community, well, plenty of corps who don't sound like a "contemporary wind ensemble" get plenty of credit.