Do you think a Div. I corps would ever switch BACK to Gs?

[regularsopguy]

Yeah, but if I stood 30 feet away from you outdoors, that comparison might yield different results than it would indoors, or at point-blank range.

I agree.

the IMPACT from a line of G bugles is much greater than from a line of Bb horns. I think its the most noticeable in the low brass.

the bugles were all more conical and had larger bores than their Bb counterparts. combine a longer horn, larger bore, heavier materials and you had a weapon with greater IMPACT

[Martybucs]

Gee, I didn't think the poll would be so tight.

[audiodb]

Because nobody can go back in time and make a comparison. At least I'm not the only one saying it.

I can. Of course, I'm in the unique position of having recorded field shows with professional-caliber equipment through the years before and after the rule change, in some cases with the same equipment/same settings/same venue.

The recordings back up my initial impressions - that the Bb/F hornlines generally provide a smaller, weaker sound than their G counterparts.

[Martybucs]

I can. Of course, I'm in the unique position of having recorded field shows with professional-caliber equipment through the years before and after the rule change, in some cases with the same equipment/same settings/same venue.

The recordings back up my initial impressions - that the Bb/F hornlines generally provide a smaller, weaker sound than their G counterparts.

But the uncontrollable variable is the abilities of the performers playing the instruments.

Not all hornlines have the same abilities. Not all hornlines play in the same style. Not all venues are the same.

I have heard G hornlines and Bb hornlines perform one after the other and the volume really depends on so many more things than just the key on the horn. IMO. I have over 43 years experience playing and listening to drum corps. I will agree there is a difference in the timbre of the sound.

[audiodb]

But the uncontrollable variable is the abilities of the performers playing the instruments.

Not all hornlines have the same abilities. Not all hornlines play in the same style. Not all venues are the same.

Which is why I find it more informative to compare the same corps in the same venues before/after the switch.

I have heard G hornlines and Bb hornlines perform one after the other and the volume really depends on so many more things than just the key on the horn.

....which is what makes it so compelling that among the over 40 corps I've witnessed making the key change, nearly every one has come out with a weaker sound as a result. One exception to that rule was the Oregon Crusaders - but they had 56 players on Bb/F vs. no more than 30 in any of their G bugle years.

[Martybucs]

I did some experimenting last night.

Equipment: DEG model 350, 3 valve G soprano Chrome finish .468" bore, Curry 40S mouthpiece

Yamaha Mike Vax Bb trumpet silver finish .463" bore, same mpc.

What I did was stand about 15 feet, as far as I could go and stay in the same room, distant, facing a wall and I played several pieces, the same pieces on each horn, at the same volume level. If I had to guess at a standard perhaps a solid quadruple forte. Loud enough that after about 10 minutes my wife complained, "Will you puhleese...." hey, she plays sax, what can I say?

Anyhow she agreed they both sounded outrageously and annoyingly loud. She could tell the horns were different but could not indentify which was which from the sound and refused to enter the room until I was done.

I thought she had agreed to help at this point. "Let's try this on the deck?" "No." "but I can get a better feel for the outside volume levels, I need to get 40 to 50 feet away and if you're on the deck you'd also be about 20 feet up from the ground..." "NO!"

Experiment over.

My observation as a soprano player. I could play each equally loud, however, it was easier on the G bugle. I think the ease of the volume may have an influence on how players pace themselves and respond to the relative ease of producing the volume. In other words, the players will play at a certain comfort level that allows them to perform the whole show and maintain proper sound and intonation. On the bugle, given an experienced player, that threshold is at a higher volume level, at least, for me.

My conclusion is; that you can play a trumpet at the same volume as a G soprano. It seems easier on the bugle and I think you would be more willing to perform at that level which seems easier, whether you're aware of it or not. Thus, from my little, unscientific experiment there may be a basis for saying that G hornlines are louder.

It's not that you can't play at the same volume on a trumpet. It's just easier on the G bugle, so you are more likely to perform at that higher volume level, if it is indeed easier.

Edited May 16, 2007 by Martybucs

[VOReason]

My conclusion is; that you can play a trumpet at the same volume as a G soprano. It seems easier on the bugle and I think you would be more willing to perform at that level which seems easier, whether you're aware of it or not. Thus, from my little, unscientific experiment there may be a basis for saying that G hornlines are louder.

My conclusion is that you will not be married long if you continue with your "experiments"!!

[Hrothgar15]

I did some experimenting last night.

Equipment: DEG model 350, 3 valve G soprano Chrome finish .468" bore, Curry 40S mouthpiece

Yamaha Mike Vax Bb trumpet silver finish .463" bore, same mpc.

What I did was stand about 15 feet, as far as I could go and stay in the same room, distant, facing a wall and I played several pieces, the same pieces on each horn, at the same volume level. If I had to guess at a standard perhaps a solid quadruple forte. Loud enough that after about 10 minutes my wife complained, "Will you puhleese...." hey, she plays sax, what can I say?

Anyhow she agreed they both sounded outrageously and annoyingly loud. She could tell the horns were different but could not indentify which was which from the sound and refused to enter the room until I was done.

I thought she had agreed to help at this point. "Let's try this on the deck?" "No." "but I can get a better feel for the outside volume levels, I need to get 40 to 50 feet away and if you're on the deck you'd also be about 20 feet up from the ground..." "NO!"

Experiment over.

My observation as a soprano player. I could play each equally loud, however, it was easier on the G bugle. I think the ease of the volume may have an influence on how players pace themselves and respond to the relative ease of producing the volume. In other words, the players will play at a certain comfort level that allows them to perform the whole show and maintain proper sound and intonation. On the bugle, given an experienced player, that threshold is at a higher volume level, at least, for me.

My conclusion is; that you can play a trumpet at the same volume as a G soprano. It seems easier on the bugle and I think you would be more willing to perform at that level which seems easier, whether you're aware of it or not. Thus, from my little, unscientific experiment there may be a basis for saying that G hornlines are louder.

It's not that you can't play at the same volume on a trumpet. It's just easier on the G bugle, so you are more likely to perform at that higher volume level, if it is indeed easier.

Interesting.

[MCL_Contra]

Oh and DEG makes a crappy bugle.

I've played on Kanstul and DEG contras and I will take a DEG any day over the Kanstul. The DEG is much more free breathing to play and produces a bigger sound.

Now high brass is a different story (from what I've heard).