No Mass Appeal, No Future

[Harmonious Cacophony]

Not that they shouldn't try, but that the average person in America doesn't have to be interested in DCI in order for the activity to continue. More fans would be great, but DCI shouldn't change the end product with the sole goal of reaching a broader fan-base.

-Edited for a grammatical error.

Edited June 25, 2007 by Harmonious Cacophony

[KingJoeVII]

*what he said above* (posted before I saw his response above)

why shouldn't dci try to appeal to more people? more fans is a bad thing?

I think what the post is implying is that trying to appeal to the mass market would change DCI in ways that might not be so great for the current fans...lots of stuff would have to change in order for DCI to go mainstream and many people would not be ready for the changes that would need to be made.

I believe that DCI does have a future in appealing to the size of audience and the mainstream appeal that an event like Figure Skating does. While it isn't completely mainstream (meaning people know kinda what it is, however it does not make the news consistently) it does have a level of cultural consciousness that Drum Corps has yet to achieve.

Edited June 25, 2007 by KingJoeVII

[FlamMan]

I'll put it this way...Drum Corps has become an elitist, snobby music activity. In the 70's & 80's Drum Corp had a rock & roll mentality...entertain & get as many standing 0 & goose bump moments as possible. Now, Drum Corps is like the Opera...too sophisticated for the average Joe. I can't tell one corps from the other, either from their uniforms, or their music. You line up BD, BK, BC, & BS, & they look like they all got the memo to wear blue & black...& use the cheapest looking materials they could find.

I am completely bored to death with todays shows, uniforms, show design, you name it. And you can trace the decline in attendance & interest in the activity to the transition from shows that were designed around entertaining music, to the "look at how sophisticated we are" shows in the early 90's. The switch from the tick judging system to the buildup system also hurt.

On another note, I was so looking forward to this year Madison Scouts...they had everything tee'd up for them...to continue the momentum & buzz generated by last years Alumni project. The most innovative thing the Scouts could have done this year would have been to return to a more traditional, vintage uniform & show design...instead they went the other way & it most likely will cost them a finals spot, & new uniforms once again next year & more staff & member turnover.

Just once I would like to hear the Cavies play Over The Rainbow for closer again...or SCV play Send In The Clowns...

[KingJoeVII]

I'll put it this way...Drum Corps has become an elitist, snobby music activity. In the 70's & 80's Drum Corp had a rock & roll mentality...entertain & get as many standing 0 & goose bump moments as possible. Now, Drum Corps is like the Opera...too sophisticated for the average Joe. I can't tell one corps from the other, either from their uniforms, or their music. You line up BD, BK, BC, & BS, & they look like they all got the memo to wear blue & black...& use the cheapest looking materials they could find.

I am completely bored to death with todays shows, uniforms, show design, you name it. And you can trace the decline in attendance & interest in the activity to the transition from shows that were designed around entertaining music, to the "look at how sophisticated we are" shows in the early 90's. The switch from the tick judging system to the buildup system also hurt.

On another note, I was so looking forward to this year Madison Scouts...they had everything tee'd up for them...to continue the momentum & buzz generated by last years Alumni project. The most innovative thing the Scouts could have done this year would have been to return to a more traditional, vintage uniform & show design...instead they went the other way & it most likely will cost them a finals spot, & new uniforms once again next year & more staff & member turnover.

Just once I would like to hear the Cavies play Over The Rainbow for closer again...or SCV play Send In The Clowns...

I can see where you are coming from, however getting back to the topic at hand, I don't think what you described contains more mass appeal than the shows today do. It isnt that the shows appealed to the mainstream back then - I mean we never saw Garfield playing as the musical guest on SNL - I think that the shows back then had a different appeal, as you mentioned.

just to clarify a bit so we don't get into a "my generation of drum corps is better than yours" argument because that is really not what the thread is about...

[silvertrombone]

This is entertaining?

If Drum Corps is to survive, corps need to think about mass appeal.

I tend to agree in general. I wasn't around the activity from 98 to 04 and have only seen a few of those performances. Last year's top 12 I was pretty into in terms of seeing multiple performances and being somewhat familiar with their shows. I'm getting back into it slowly--give me time.

But in general, and it's only my opinion and personal preference, I tend to agree. I think that a good incentive would be to offer a fan favorite option at every show similar to the lip gloss competition earlier this month out east--you know, pick your favorite brass section and text message to xyz--won by Crown, I believe.

Make it a $5000 bonus prize or something. Let's talk money--money talks louder than any individual corps director, and if it is entertainment that you want, it will really quickly become entertainment you get!

Now, does that mean that quality goes out the window? Or level of 'intuitiveness'? No. Phantom 93 is a really great example of obscure music that next to nobody knows, has never heard, and YOWZA--instant classics and multiple standing O's.

Give the corps a financial incentive, regardless of division, size, etc to entertain and I'll bet a lot of the problems--perceived by the OP if not real--will go away pretty quick. By definition, when I say entertain I mean from the broad whole of the audience's perspective, not just the 00's crowd, and not just the members, and taking into account the 70's/80's/90's folks and what THEY personally find to be entertaining.

You can be PHENOMENALLY innovative with 'traditional' music. See also The Planets (Cavies), Firebird (Cavies/PR), Belshazzar's Feast (Star), POTO (SCV), Les Mis (Cadets), Appalachian Spring (Cadets), and all the GREAT jazz that BD has blessed us with over the years, etc. The list goes on.

Heck, seeing some other corps do some of these classics and do them justice would be cool.

Note: Star 93 was not well-received by many because it was uncomfortable to the untrained ear. Many of us fell in love with one viewing. But most of the crowd did not appreciate it. What you have today (well, at least 06) is an entire activity blasting the crowd with music they don't know, and I think that is what the OP was referring to. You can't play Glass and Bartok for a bunch of 50-somethings and expect that 10,000 of them will go ape ballistic for it. Phantom of the Opera and Shostakovich and Malaguena? Maybe.

Edited June 25, 2007 by silvertrombone

[mistofflies]

Look closer, there has been some agreement, even before your post.

Well I wasn't intending to agree with him, because I don't. I was just saying that after I scanned the responses (I admit I didn't look closely) it looked like just about everyone was roasting him...I didn't see the sense in adding one more log to an already raging fire.

The whistle test isn't about the quality of a show, it is about the accessibility and appeal of a show. There is a big difference. If DCI starts scoring accessability and appeal to the general audience, we would see more of it. To me, that's what the term "General Effect" should mean. But, I don't make the rules.

This is where I might make a comment like "Yeah, we could dumb everything down and make it very Disney-eqsue, something like Mary Poppins with sing-a-longs and dancing. That's more accessible than Shostakovich, right?" But I'm not going to actually make that comment in earnest because I know that's now what you're implying, even though your argument could easily lead down that path. I personally would rather have more music I've never heard of, than showtunes and whatnot. Yeah, there have been some great shows made out of showtunes, soundtracks, etc. But, I've also been exposed to a lot of music and composers that I had never heard of before due to drum corps. What about BAC and Jennifer Higdon last year? I'd bet that many people were exposed to her music and had the chance to discover a wonderful composer due to that show, even if it wasn't the most accessible thing on earth.

Hundreds of thousands of fans? Where are they?

They won't all disappear. DCI will become the showcase for a handful of super bands.

I'm referring to the aggregate of the fans who go to all the shows and regionals, and of course finals itself boasts what...about 50k a year? I'm not sure of the exact numbers but if you figure that even if each small show has maybe 500 - 1000 unique people (not unreasonable, they try to spread the shows apart from one another), and there are maybe 20-30 shows per summer per touring "group" (where group is about 4-5 corps that tend to follow the same tour schedule for a couple of weeks), and there are 3-4 groups....well you can see where I'm going with this, right? I could dig around and look up hard, ascertainable fact but I think we can both agree that those are fairly reasonable assumptions to make.

Of course, when it comes to the idea of DCI being a bunch of "super bands"...I'm afraid we will have to disagree.

[mistofflies]

This has been my argument for years. That kind of activity still exists in very large numbers. High school marching bands fulfill that role that the older corps used top fill.

The largest difference is that CYO, American Legion and VFW posts don't sponsor them anymore. I know there are lots of reasons behind this, but it's true that there are fewer locally sponsored corps becasue there are fewer local sponsors.

It's also true that, 40 years ago, 30 horns was considered a full line.

Yes, that's exactly what I mean. There were more corps, sure, but they had less exposure and there were fewer members. Now there are fewer corps, with more members and higher exposure nationwide. It's a tradoff, and I prefer the latter situation to the former.

[DrumCorpsFan27]

I can see your point, but I don't agree with it. Still failing to see how good show designs would counteract those other obstacles.

Also (not directed at you Dave), I think that "Mutual respect amongst different eras" thread should be looked at again. Lots of bashing :(

I'm just saying that if it is good enough, people will come. We have die hard fans who do. I think their can be twice as many at each show.

Yes, there needs to be respect between the eras. There is no way I could do what these guys are doing now. Yet, I would bet folks from the sixties would say that about what we did in the eighties. There's a good chance that today's marchers will be blown away by what is done in 2030. My comments are never directed to them, the blood and guts of drum corps.

[euponitone]

I can't tell one corps from the other, either from their uniforms, or their music. You line up BD, BK, BC, & BS, & they look like they all got the memo to wear blue & black...& use the cheapest looking materials they could find.

Yeah, the blue corps are a bad example, and i wish they did something different, but how can you possibly say everyone looks the same....we've been over this before, and if anything, uniforms look more different now than ever. My problem with uniforms is that most corps wont pick an identity and stick with it.

[mistofflies]

So the higher quality of the handfull of remaining corps outweighs the quantity and exposure to a greater number of people? I am assuming you would agree that 250 corps, of lesser quality (I'll give you that one for sure), by there shear number would reach more people. I don't know. It's an interesting argument. I guess I'm assuming that many corps members have one or both parents who had some involvement in corps themselves. Therefore, less numbers means less potential for future numbers.......kind of a downward spiral. It could be a very long downward spiral, but a spiral nonetheless. Has anyone ever gathered statistics on this (present corps members with parents who marched)? It wouldn't be hard to do. It is kind of sad that there used to be competition to be one of the top 25 corps, and now there aren't even 25 competing in D1. Peace.

I kind of responded to this just above, but I wanted to make sure I addressed you personally so you don't miss my reply. :)

There definitely were more corps in past years, that much is certain. But in the days of having 400-500 corps across the nation, how large was the average corps? And how much did they tour? Generally the most exposure they got was in the local community. Now there are definitely less corps, but they are larger and they get much more attention nationwide...even internationally! And a lot of that attention is because the corps that still exist are the very best in terms of quality, and they spend the entire summer touring across much of the country. So in terms of exposure, I'd say even though we have less corps around today, we more than likely have much more exposure.

I will agree, however, that it is sad that we don't even have 25 competing D1 corps. I would love to see more corps, but not just for the sake of having more. I want quality, too.