Marching While Playing

[FTNK]

Inspired by this thread, I decided to watch the videos and analyze how much each corps's hornline marches and plays. I counted places where a large portion of the hornline marched and played, and when individuals played features while on the move. There is, of course, a certain amount of great area here, especially when half the hornline is playing and half is doing drill at carry,

or half the hornline is standing still. Still, I feel like my investigations revealed interesting things about how each corps puts together their shows. I am presenting this simply as information, with no value judgments, and I did not do this to make any corps or era look bad; I feel it simply illustrates differences in show design philosophy and practice.

I started with The Cavaliers from this year, using the Kalamazoo video. High cam is the best for this since you can see everyone on the field and if they are moving. The Cavaliers, as of 7/5, have:

5 min 24 seconds (324 seconds) of brass playing while marching.

Their show is 11 minutes 25 seconds long, giving them a "playing while marching percentage" of 46.3%.

Also interesting: The longest continuous stretch of brass playing on the move is 34 seconds, with several 28 and 27 second segments. There are also many 12 seconds segments. In addition, a lot of the playing was backfield.

I then moved to Santa Clara. I had an instinctive feeling that SCV played on the move more. Well, perceptions lie:

Out of the 10 min 27 second show they performed at Stanford, 5 minutes and 24 seconds (324 seconds) was brass playing on the march--only 7 seconds more than Cavies. Their longest stretch of brass on the march is in their opener: 59 seconds from stepoff to the first big hit. A large proportion of their simultaneous playing and marching is in the opener, clocking in at 2 min 25 sec (145 sec). Their percentage: 51.8%.

Since 1990 Star was talked about a lot in the other thread as an example of a lot of brass playing on the move, it was next. Multicam presented some problems, but for the most part I was able to see if the hornline was marching. I was pretty surprised by what I found:

Star played while marching for 8 minutes and 20 seconds (500 seconds) out of their 10 min 28 sec show, giving them a percentage of 79.6%. This is obviously a lot more than the other two shows. Perhaps more intriguing was the length of the segments of sustained brass playing: Their longest was 1 min 28 sec (88 seconds), with other segments of 78, 71, 70, 68 and 40 seconds of sustained marching and playing.

I decided do this with Cadets 2006, since we definitely marched and played a lot. Even with absolutely no brass in the perc. feature, there was 5 minutes 55 seconds (355 sec) of brass playing on the move, with 55 and 40 second stretches in the ballad, 38 seconds in the closer and 35 in the opener; 46.3%. Interestingly, 2005 Cadets, which did have some brass in the percussion feature, still ends up nearly the same with 6 min 1 sec (361 sec) and a percentage of 49.7%.

Here is a chart of my findings based on the shows I did last night, from most to least:

Corps P&M Total P&M % Longest P&M segment

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1984 Cadets: 553 seconds 71.3 89 sec

1985 Cadets: 539 sec 70.8 122 sec

1990 Star: 500 sec 79.6 88 sec

1984 Scouts: 500 sec 64.7 105 sec

1984 PR: 479 sec 61.3 94 sec

1993 Cadets: 464 sec 68.5 77 sec

1991 Star: 404 sec 64.6 82 sec

1998 Cadets: 400 sec 59.1 49 sec

2004 Capital Regiment: 385 sec 60.7 44 sec

2008 Bluecoats: 382 sec 52.2 55 sec

2005 Cadets: 361 sec 49.7 59 sec

2006 Cadets: 355 sec 46.3 55 sec

2000 SCV: 354 sec 51.8 34 sec

2003 Cadets: 353 sec 46.1 39 sec

2008 PR: 340 sec 49.7 38 sec

1984 BD: 335 sec 44.4 90 sec

2008 BD: 333 sec 48.5 35 sec

2008 Blue Stars: 332 sec 47.8 30 sec

1993 Star: 330 sec 49 51 sec

2008 Crown: 327 sec 48.9 43 sec

2008 SCV: 324 sec 51.8 59 sec

2005 Capital Regiment: 324 sec 54.3 32 sec

2008 Madison: 323 sec 48.6 30 sec

2004 BD: 319 sec 47.5 47 sec

2008 Cavies: 317 sec 46.3 34 sec

2008 Cadets: 313 sec 49.8 56 sec

1996 PR: 311 sec 51.2 104 sec

2004 Cadets: 311 sec 45.3 50 sec

2004 Cavies: 300 sec 43.8 62 sec

2002 Cavies: 259 sec 38.1 32 sec

2004 SCV: 253 sec 36.8 36 sec

2008 Pacific Crest: 231 sec 38.5 33 sec

Againt I reiterate that this is just information, not trying to make anyone or any time look bad. For instance, a lot of the playing in Star 1990 was slow form reshapes at impact points with very little difficulty. It seems that designers are more inclined to use a stationary form with well-integrated guard instead these days. Also, the shorter segments may simply point to the greater integration of the percussion into the total musical package.

I really enjoyed doing this, it helped me get into shows on a deeper level. I'll take requests--which shows should I do next?

7/7--Updated with 2000 SCV, '04 and '05 Capital Regiment, and 2003 and '84 Cadets.

7/11--1996 PR

2008 Bluecoats: 382 sec 52.2 55 sec

2008 PR: 340 sec 49.7 38 sec

2008 BD: 333 sec 48.5 35 sec

2008 Blue Stars: 332 sec 47.8 30 sec

2008 Crown: 327 sec 48.9 43 sec

2008 SCV: 324 sec 51.8 59 sec

2008 Madison: 323 sec 48.6 30 sec

2008 Cavies: 317 sec 46.3 34 sec

2008 Cadets: 313 sec 49.8 56 sec

2008 Pacific Crest: 231 sec 38.5 33 sec

Avg: 48.2%

Edited September 21, 2008 by FTNK

[soccerguy315]

thank you for doing this, I enjoyed reading your results!

Do you think results percentage wise the this 13-17 range (or 9-12, somewhere other than the top) would match the percentages that the top finishers have, or do you think it would be noticeably different?

[Jedicadet05]

I got 6min53sec=413 sec for Cadets 05. nearly an extra min

413sec/690sec=59.8%

The max time for a drum corps show is 11.5 mins=690 sec. The numbers you used for CBC '05 puts the show at 12.1 minutes....impossible :)

just some loving constructive criticism

[Bill L.]

Great stuff !

Bill

[ShortAndFast]

Thanks for doing this. It's a fascinating way to quantify one thing that's different between today's shows and those of the early 90's. It's also fascinating that the differences are so small between all the 2008 shows. from Cadets to Crown is only a 6% delta, compared to the almost 30% difference between Cadets 2008 and Star 1990.

[Bill L.]

I wonder what it is for PC ? They move alot while playing. I'll have to try and figure Madisons to.

Bill

[FTNK]

One thing to keep in mind--Crown's number is so low because they do very little actual marching in their ballad, which is pretty long. They have a lot of body movement, though--that's one thing, I didn't factor in body movement, etc. which adds to difficulty; Crown's stuff is probably harder than marching around at a slow tempo.

Chris--I started timing right when the block steps off in Kill Bill--I'm sure you know the part which is technically the preshow, so it's longer that 11.5. I'll get back to you on the rest--we could be counting different things a little differently.

[skevinp]

I then moved to Santa Clara. I had an instinctive feeling that SCV played on the move more. Well, perceptions lie:

If there were a way to measure the amount of ground covered while playing, I suspect that would explain the perception and show SCV in a more impressive light.

I think it is really good that you did this as it provides a baseline. But of course, there are so many other factors and the complexity of what they are marching and playing during those times makes a big difference.

[g0at]

I just did cavies 2001 and came out to about 49.1 %

334 seconds playing out of 680 ( from downbeat to the last cuttoff)

-I am not counting solos.

-I basically start the timer when at least an entire section is playing on the move.

-I know the music well enough to stop the timer between long pauses and " rests"

-I am not counting visual moves as marching, I only started timer when there was movement

Anyone have any requests, I have basically every show going back to 70s on high cam

I was thinking of doing cadets 97'

Also I think it would be interesting to divide the total time by 690 for EVERY corps, because whether their show was shorter than another one, doesn't mean they played more or that it was harder. That way you actually get a comparison of total time marching and playing rather than someone who has a shorter show, plays less and has a higher percentage. But regardless... Ima go do a few more.

Edited July 6, 2008 by g0at

[DantheOldMan]

I really like this thread for a couple of reasons. My son is member of a very old and reputable drum corp, which has not been scoring very well. (Have you figured out which corp yet?) He had the choice of traveling to a closer city (which would have been better for monthly camps in November through April before everydays), but he chose to be in the older more respected corp. That meant 7-8 hour drives during the monthly camps. Surprisingly, his corp is scoring low this year, and the closer corp is scoring higher.

But, my frustration over the scoring is that several corps are scoring higher in the various shows (I have been to 3 shows this year), even though they seem to be standing still most of the time while they wail on their hard music. My son's corp, in my opinion, is in constant motion and plays while in constant motion.

Even though I was never in a DCI corp, I feel like I know a little about music and marching. I was in musical corps in the early 70s, when DCI was in its formative years. I followed DCI corps, but didn't have the time or the money to devote to be in one. I was also a percussion section leader for a major Big 10 university drum line in the late 70s, so I believe that I know marching and music.

I have to laugh. In the 70s, marching bands (including college marching bands) wanted to be like drum corps, so they started to change their marching style. Now, it appears to me that drum corps are trying to become marching bands! Standing still and playing?!? Little dance moves?!? Walking to opening formations?!? I could go on and on.

So, my son's corp is a traditional corp. They even took all their halts out of their show -- they never stop marching, and they play while marching -- even according to this thread -- a good percentage of the time. I get so frustrated by the fact that these marching bands -- er, drum corps -- are scoring higher than a traditional drum corp show. Am I crazy?

Please don't take this post as an insult on any other corp. I know that not everyone can place first, and that some corp has to place last. I know that the members of each corp work their tails off and want to score high, so I am not intending to insult any other corp. As a father, I just don't want it to be my son's corp that is last, right? Actually, I wouldn't feel "cheated" if my son's corp was in last or next to last if the corps scoring above his performed more difficult shows. A simple show performed well should not score as high as a difficult show performed above average. At least that's my opinion. Maybe DCI should start having giving points for "difficultly" like they do in diving contests!!

Anyway, those are my thoughts. If you want to know other corps to look at their show to tell me how much they stand still, please do all the corps at the Kalamazoo show. Thanks.

P.S. I am looking forward to seeing the Blue Devils and SCV in Dallas in less than two weeks. Unless their shows are amazing, Cavaliers should win. Their show is amazing. I love the show, even though it only plays and marches 46.3% of the time.