Kilties

[Scerpella]

There is great difficulty when alumni criticize their former corps, even constructively because it comes off as personal criticism of people who we know. Now I cannot claim to come from an era of when Kilties did much better (04-10) but I would argue that while competitive success is the ultimate goal, what many of us alumni want is a corps that we can feel put their best foot forward and at at least gave it a good try. And what some of us are reacting to is not necessarily placing but a consistent decline of the competitiveness of the corps for the past 4 years.

The problems revolve IMO around the inability to attract sufficient quality members to the group. Solve that problem and the other ones are greatly minimized. 2010 was a seminal year because after it a great many experienced members left the corps, not because of any large scale dissatisfaction but because many of us were simply getting too old to keep doing this. The Baby boomers, who mainly marched in the 60's thru 80's are now heading into their 60's and there comes a time when the average person that age starts to look for different leisure pursuits.

With the exits of those folks, we did not see a replacement of them in number or experience so once the core of dependable people was gone, now would be the test of whether the corps knew how to attract new people of identical potential and skill. Unfortunately the answer appears to be no. Repertoires and musical interpretations and visual programs had to be greatly simplified to match the ability level of the corps as a whole which as we said was declining. So you take a corps which already seems to live in 11th and 12th place and now they are 10 points below that.

When you get to that stage it seems like massive change is in order. Whatever they are doing isnt working so its time to try something else probably with new people. It seems harsh but where in the world does continually falling short of a goal NOT lead to changeover?

For my part, I beleive if youre going to change then go big. The Kilties brand is essentially an Alumni corps brand now. There's no getting around the fact that few see them as anything but a nostalgia group anymore. If it remains the intention of the corps to attempt competitive success in Open Class then the brand has to be changed. And maybe the attraction of a corps whose image of greatness was 40 years ago simply aint gonna cut it anymore.

[dannyboy]

"Puzzling addition to the discussion."

Someone just told me it is a technique is called, "Deflection."

Edited September 12, 2014 by dannyboy

[camel lips]

There is great difficulty when alumni criticize their former corps, even constructively because it comes off as personal criticism of people who we know. Now I cannot claim to come from an era of when Kilties did much better (04-10) but I would argue that while competitive success is the ultimate goal, what many of us alumni want is a corps that we can feel put their best foot forward and at at least gave it a good try. And what some of us are reacting to is not necessarily placing but a consistent decline of the competitiveness of the corps for the past 4 years.

The problems revolve IMO around the inability to attract sufficient quality members to the group. Solve that problem and the other ones are greatly minimized. 2010 was a seminal year because after it a great many experienced members left the corps, not because of any large scale dissatisfaction but because many of us were simply getting too old to keep doing this. The Baby boomers, who mainly marched in the 60's thru 80's are now heading into their 60's and there comes a time when the average person that age starts to look for different leisure pursuits.

With the exits of those folks, we did not see a replacement of them in number or experience so once the core of dependable people was gone, now would be the test of whether the corps knew how to attract new people of identical potential and skill. Unfortunately the answer appears to be no. Repertoires and musical interpretations and visual programs had to be greatly simplified to match the ability level of the corps as a whole which as we said was declining. So you take a corps which already seems to live in 11th and 12th place and now they are 10 points below that.

When you get to that stage it seems like massive change is in order. Whatever they are doing isnt working so its time to try something else probably with new people. It seems harsh but where in the world does continually falling short of a goal NOT lead to changeover?

For my part, I beleive if youre going to change then go big. The Kilties brand is essentially an Alumni corps brand now. There's no getting around the fact that few see them as anything but a nostalgia group anymore. If it remains the intention of the corps to attempt competitive success in Open Class then the brand has to be changed. And maybe the attraction of a corps whose image of greatness was 40 years ago simply aint gonna cut it anymore.

Today's DCA is quite different than just 7 years ago. Today it's Younger ,Faster Stronger.

I agree with what your saying that Kilties do seem to be a branded Alumni group.

I personally feel what has to happen is for you to follow the model of what CorpsVets did. they dropped the CorpVets senior image.renamed themselves Atlanta CV.. Started aggressively recruiting at the HS level and let it be know to anyone wishing to audition if you could not keep up the physical stamina you were not part of the field show. Lots of ageing vets,,,some with 10 to 15 years with the corps found themselves sidelined but moving forward comes with casualties.

It will take leadership with a forward way of thinking to see that.

Kilties could come out rebranded as KILT and have the alumni division of the Kilties . KILT gets a whole new makeover with modern uniforms with plaid flair and Multi Key instruments while Kilties get to honor the past with the Kilts and the bugles.

Seems like a meeting of the minds to me.

Edited September 12, 2014 by camel lips

[camel lips]

"Puzzling addition to the discussion."

Someone just told me it is a technique is called, "Deflection."

I see where they were going with that. I've heard it before myself from different corps . Beer is bad for the DCA image now days because you are trying to attract the younger HS generation not the beer belly beer guzzling seniors of yesteryear. Ice cream and cupcakes would be the sponcors to look for from now on. Or coke or Pepsi. forget beer!

Heck I am surprised they are still allowing beer to be sold at championships. At least one discussion in the championship thread about drunken spectators. It's for the kids now days.

[Scerpella]

I see where they were going with that. I've heard it before myself from different corps . Beer is bad for the DCA image now days because you are trying to attract the younger HS generation not the beer belly beer guzzling seniors of yesteryear. Ice cream and cupcakes would be the sponcors to look for from now on. Or coke or Pepsi. forget beer!

Heck I am surprised they are still allowing beer to be sold at championships. At least one discussion in the championship thread about drunken spectators. It's for the kids now days.

Beerfest is a huge fundraiser for the Kilties. Cant fault them for that, it finances their operation.

[camel lips]

Beerfest is a huge fundraiser for the Kilties. Cant fault them for that, it finances their operation.

I see that and you see that but the image is that you are still just a beer guzzling bunch of ole senior farts that like to smoke, drink and party all the time. Sorry if that sounds harsh but it's reality.

If a new image is what you seek then a new fundraising/ sponcor that does not involve adult beverages needs to be reached for. You can't be half pregnant . Attracting kids and more importantly attracting kids parents with the checkbook is what is important here. A parent is going to be on the fence when they hear about their kid wanting to March with a corps full of older men that are known to be party animals. And then when they go to the website and the first thing they see is Beerfest 2015 is the main sponsor it's bound to turn a few parents off.

[camel lips]

Beerfest is a huge fundraiser for the Kilties. Cant fault them for that, it finances their operation.

I gotta say I think it was 2005 and 2006 when we did the Midwest tours and went to the Kilties home shows. Not sure if y'all were calling it Beerfest or what back then but it was balls to the wall the best show I had ever been to and the best one I had been to since. Beer on tap galore and brats so nasty only a mother (and me) could love them. It was a great time for SR drum corps. But I am afraid those days are LONG gone in DCA.

Edited September 12, 2014 by camel lips

[hairbear]

Actually, "Brewfest" is one aspect of the corps operation, that IS successful. It's well attended and well run. Funding is not the problem.

[Fran Haring]

I see that and you see that but the image is that you are still just a beer guzzling bunch of ole senior farts that like to smoke, drink and party all the time. Sorry if that sounds harsh but it's reality.

I get the whole "beer-drinking old guys" thing... but honestly, a craft-brew festival like Brewfest doesn't foster that image, at least as far as I'm concerned.

I've been to a few craft-brew festivals over the years.... and the atmosphere at them is nothing like a "bunch of old drunks hanging around."

[dannyboy]

I'll defend the Great Lakes Brew Fest.

It is a first-class event held at the Racine Zoo on the scenic shore of Lake Michigan. It's about tasting craft/artisan brews -- not some college beer bash (provided pint glasses have special "pour lines" servers must abide by). You wait in line talking to people about -- beer -- and when you get your taste of that brew, it's just a few ounces in the bottom of that glass. The "serious" brew tasters will sip a little, and sometimes spit it out -- and rinse the glass before moving to the next. They are not there to get drunk; they are there to taste. Yes, there are the others that are there for the "Good Cheer!" Tickets are expensive, so your crowd is a well-behaved sort. They take this seriously. For many it is their hobby. As a premium event of it's kind, you get a lot of "brew snobs" (in a good way) that insist on a provided ratings card for all the brews (this year we even have iOS and Android Great Lakes Brew Fest apps to track and rate the beers you taste.) There are over 200 brews, a Home Brew village, and a growing-in-popularity craft ciders area. It is well-regulated (legally and rules). It is extremely organized. People come from all over the US (and a few from overseas) to this. There is shuttle and bus services. There are discounted designated driver tickets (wrist bands) and those people get endless craft sodas and water at several special Designated Driver tents. The crowd is remarkably well-behaved and in all these years the always-sells-out-in-advance visitors have never been a problem. Attendance is around 4000. There is live music throughout the day, and Kilties put on a concert about an hour before the event is over. Oh -- the event is only about 4 hours (VIP ticket holders get in an hour early and have goodies like cheese and sausage and stuff.) It's a one-day event that generates $50-60K, (net), for Kilties (from what I recall). I'm not aware of any other fundraiser that can make that much in one day (yes, it takes months to prepare). Economic impact studies have shown (hotel/motel/restaurant/retail) that it pumps SERIOUS money into the Racine County economy. There is a long list of sponsors of the event, from the Chamber of Commerce to the Public Transit company to the local funeral home. It's a big deal for Racine. NONE OF THE KILTIES ARE ALLOWED TO TASTE ANY BEER during the fest -- as they are all busy working the event -- from ticket operations to hauling and delivering endless loads of ice and emptying spillage buckets, selling raffle tickets, cleaning, etc. I think you should all have the chance to experience it. It's a first-rate, high-profile event.

I think in Wisconsin we also clearly have a "culture of beer" and there is not the "taboo" as you might have in other parts of the country associated with it. (Look up the per-capita on beer consumption in Wisconsin). It's a cultural thing; this IS THE LAND OF OKTOBERFESTS. Oh -- even Milwaukee County Parks have some beer gardens.

All that said -- I first marched in Kilties in 2002. The current Kilties has a MUCH lower age than back then. In 2002 I was 39 and I was the "kid" in the baritone line. In 2011, I was the oldest member in the baritone line, and some baritones were 19-23 years old. We've had a huge increase of not only college-age kids but some high-school age. We have kids that start in Kilties, go on to march Madison, Phantom, Bluestars, Troopers -- and then some com back to march Kilties again (or join the instructional staff.) The act is very cleaned up compared to the Kilties of the 1990's and even early 2000s. But I think the DCA community has the longer-term memory since they only see us once a year, and still see us for what we were 12-16 years ago. Any old image of fat, beer-chugging Kilties is NOT what they are today.

And it might SEEM like we party more at DCA -- but that's just because we can on Saturday night because we don't have to perform on Sunday.

Edited September 12, 2014 by dannyboy