BRASSO Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 3. Michael Klesch taking over the brass writing, and writing in a way that works with the system taught to the members. Klesch brass arrangements are stellar, imo. On the radio dial, it'd be the " Easy Listening " station. Easy on the ears, yet sufficiently challenging for the brass performers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 (edited) I think this is one of the keys for not only Crown's rise, but also for any Corps that hopes to move up into elite status. Retention. Its seems so easy an answer in theory, but not so in practice, imo. Corps that are constantly viewed as essentially feeder Corps for the top 3 or 4 Corps, are in an almost impossible competitive no mans land. Without good retention and/ or a stoppage to becoming an uncompensated feeder Corps up the food chain to their competitors above them, its pretty much impossible to rise up into the elite status. So few Corps now are able to break that annual cycle of being a feeder Corps. Carolina Crown to their credit were able to break thru that glass ceiling. Star of Indiana is the only other Corps that did it in the last 35 years. The overwhelming vast majority of the others however, seem stuck in what has become a willing permanent purgatory for themselves, unable to shed their long held status and assessment as an uncompensated feeder Corps to the elites at the top. "Which is exactly why drum corps today is about entertainment on the field and competition in the board room", was my first thought. Then, yeah Brasso, you describe the separation between corps visa-vie retention pretty well, but retention is a perk of achieving status so I'd expect Crown to have an increase, and I'd expect all of the top-12 to have retention to varying degrees be they altruistic, talent-level, or cost. But I so disagree with you, and you present the evidence yourself that I'm right. You want competition? The top three isn't going to give it to you as much as the "belly" of the lineup from say, 5 to 10 and 12. (If there's a no-man's land in the competition, it's 10th and 11th, IMO). All of the real "competition" happens in what you call "No Man's Land". Stuck in purgatory? Look, don't worry about them in their hell. It's one they created for themselves. Edited December 15, 2014 by garfield Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 I'd say it came down to these areas: 1. New staff in 2003 that had a clear vision, great educations, and solid concepts on the techniques that would be used. 2. Retention 3. Michael Klesch taking over the brass writing, and writing in a way that works with the system taught to the members. As for the lower scores the past few years, I still believe they're at the top of the game. Besides, the corps that have caught up/passed them in recent seasons aren't light years ahead, the top hornlines are all rather spectacular, IMO. I think you are so right even if you have them out of order; all of the other things create retention. And in all cases you accurately describe, I think the common link is the people. The writers, designers, staff, and techs who go back year after year are a nearly perfect unit. Klesch is amazing but watch Matt Harloff teach it. And, oh my, wait until Mr. Percussion gets in the Crown groove. Scott Johnson is home at BD; could the Crown staff now be complete? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corpsband Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 set high standards and insist that everyone in the whole organization buy into them (staff, members, admin, volunteers). go watch klesch run ensemble early season :-) teach your members how to achieve them -- i think this is so often overlooked. just listen to matt harloff at a rehearsal. it's not about taking a bunch of highly talented members to the next level (whatever the hell that is). it's always about fundamental concepts -- from the first camp to warmups at finals. design shows you know the members can attain at the end of the season (even if the members have no idea they're capable of attaining that level) but if i had to pick one.... imo Crown taught their way to where they are now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corpsband Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 But I so disagree with you, and you present the evidence yourself that I'm right. You want competition? The top three isn't going to give it to you as much as the "belly" of the lineup from say, 5 to 10 and 12. (If there's a no-man's land in the competition, it's 10th and 11th, IMO). All of the real "competition" happens in what you call "No Man's Land". Stuck in purgatory? Look, don't worry about them in their hell. It's one they created for themselves. i roll my eyes when people talk about corps that are stuck. there's been so much growth in quality top to bottom in the past decade, it's kind of stunning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 (edited) i roll my eyes when people talk about corps that are stuck. there's been so much growth in quality top to bottom in the past decade, it's kind of stunning. Placement " stuck ", not " quality " stuck. The vast majority of Corps in the World Class Division beyond the top 4 spots, havn't moved the placement dial for themselves over the years hardly a bit. And most of 'em have been at it for decades. They have very little retention from year to year, and most of them are essentially willing feeder Corps to their other WC Div. competitors above them. They are basically training wheel Corps, lets face it. We don't have to name them. We all here know who they are. What would be " stunning " is to not to be able to acknowledge this multi decade reality. Crown and Star of Indiana are the only 2 start up DCI Corps the last 35 years that have become the exception to the rule here. This is to their credit. And one of these 2 quit DCI. So that leaves only Crown now. So this really has nothing to do with " quality ". It has to do with moving up the ranks of DCI into the top 4 or so placement echelon tier. Unless these Corps can find a way to retain their marchers ( As Crown was eventually able to do ) their chances of ridding themselves of their long held status as training wheels, feeder Corps, to the top tier elites is slim to none. It would be " stunning " to me not to recognize this reality when its right in front of one's rolling and blinking eyes. Edited December 16, 2014 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 (edited) Placement " stuck ", not " quality " stuck. The vast majority of Corps in the World Class Division beyond the top 4 spots, havn't moved the placement dial for themselves over the years hardly a bit. And most of 'em have been at it for decades. They have very little retention from year to year, and most of them are essentially willing feeder Corps to their other WC Div. competitors above them. They are basically training wheel Corps, lets face it. We don't have to name them. We all here know who they are. What would be " stunning " is to not to be able to acknowledge this multi decade reality. Crown and Star of Indiana are the only 2 start up DCI Corps the last 35 years that have become the exception to the rule here. This is to their credit. And one of these 2 quit DCI. So that leaves only Crown now. So this really has nothing to do with " quality ". It has to do with moving up the ranks of DCI into the top 4 or so placement echelon tier. Unless these Corps can find a way to retain their marchers ( As Crown was eventually able to do ) their chances of ridding themselves of their long held status as training wheels, feeder Corps, to the elites is slim to none. It would be " stunning " to me not to recognize this reality when its right in front of one's rolling and blinking eyes. Wasn't Bloo "languishing" in that 5 to 10 "no man's land" just a few years ago? And you should define "quality", because I believe its the quality of the organization that helps propel it up the ladder. Oh, and the red above is the genesis of the G7 argument. You're now agreeing with them, Stu? I mean Brasso? Edited December 16, 2014 by garfield Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 (edited) Wasn't Bloo "languishing" in that 5 to 10 "no man's land" just a few years ago? And you should define "quality", because I believe its the quality of the organization that helps propel it up the ladder. Oh, and the red above is the genesis of the G7 argument. You're now agreeing with them, Stu? I mean Brasso? I am not going to be swept up into the reasons WHY this is the reality. I merely pointed out the undeniable reality of the majority of the DCI Corps not being able to move the placement dial for themselves very much. Crown was the exception because they crossed that threshold of becoming a feeder Corps to the others. Without retention, and veteran talent influx from Corps below, Kletsch ( Downey ) are no magicians that can turn a carnival's old mare into a thoroughbred winning racehorse stud. Crown had organizational abilities and first rate instruction .The higher retention followed from that. Then placement ascendancy resulted from that next. My point is that the vast majority of the DCI Corps show no evidence at all of replicating this. They've been at it for years, in many cases too. So thats that, and there is not much to disagree with it seems to me re. the vast majority of the DCI Corps and the undeniable reality that I'm referring too here with them. Edited December 16, 2014 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFZFAN Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 I can't believe this hasn't been suggested but the obvious answer is waffles. They feed those kids lots and lots of waffles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 I can't believe this hasn't been suggested but the obvious answer is waffles. They feed those kids lots and lots of waffles. Oh if this only was so simple... then these other Corps would just send their kitchen help out to buy their members more frozen Eggos to feed them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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