danielray Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 So it's useless to relate the past to today (paragraphs 2-3) but use what was "good/useful/reasonable" in the past (para. 4). Ahh... make up my mind here... If anyone thinks they can help the activity while ignoring what went on during it's history is sadly mistaken. Activity has gone thru a ton of changes since it exploded after WWI. To not want to look at what worked, what happened, what hurt, etc, etc and try to work that into todays world is taking an over simplified and harmful approach. IOW - let's just make the same #### mistakes over again.... Edit: My old car hobby kicked in: Ford Motor Co almost went under in the late 1920s because Henry kept wanting to build Model Ts which weren't selling anymore. What saved FoMoCo was going to the Model A which used the Ts concert of a sturdy affordable car plus what people were looking for at the time (less butt ugly and spine breaking). IOW - combine what was learned in the past plus what would work for "today". ("Today" = 1928) And which specific rotting horse is there left out there not sufficiently abused? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 (edited) right, so in other words, forget learning from some of the mistakes of the past, and just push forward. I'm not saying we need to return to 1971 or even 1991. But some elements of back then clearly worked, and have been pushed aside for the sake of change. Not all change and evolution is good. Baseball has changed little, yet draws millions of fans. it makes changes when changes are NEEDED, as opposed to making changes just to change, Why must drum corps always change just to change? If you don't learn from the past, you are doomed to not succeed. In many ways, drum corps has not learned from the past, it just changes There is a couple of undeniable facts that we all should be able to agree upon : 1) Michael Cesario has brought forth a plea to Corps show designers within the last 2 years to try hard to design shows that have more audience appeal. Based upon this plea, it is clear then, that there was a problem in audience appeal of shows. At least to highly regarded Michael Cesario... a DCI Consultant anyway. 2) George Hopkins, CEO of The Cadets, in an interview 2 years ago lamented the fact that audiences of today do not appear to be positively reacting to shows as they once did. He could not explain why, but he did acknowledge the lack of connection with audiences of many modern day shows compared to earlier decades. Now, we can disagree with these Movers and Shakers observations of modern day Drum Corps shows and their level of appeal with general audiences, but we can not deny that these observations by them were made. Now, how the activity goes about trying to stem the loss of the numbers of fans following the activity is certainly open to debate and discussion. What is not in dispute however it seems to me is that in 2010, some DCI officials and Corps Directors had been noticing a problem of the collective appeal of Drum Corps shows with audiences. This does NOT mean however that ALL audience members were disapointed. These are things that I think we all should be able to agree upon. What the solution is, however, certainly remains open to debate and discussion. But in 2010, there was an audience problem. Few disagree with this fact it seems to me. Once we start with the fundamental premise that there was a problem of the appeal of shows to audiences, we can begin from that point to discuss what the solutions might be to the problem in the future. Edited May 2, 2012 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 (edited) And which specific rotting horse is there left out there not sufficiently abused? At least you're consistant, you ignore Jeffs point about "change for the sake of change" being detrimental and concentrate on baseball not being a nitch activity. And instead of any useful response to my post it's back to a beating a dead horse reference. LOL, trying to relate your methods to meetings/skull sessions where I work and don't think they'd go over too well. Edit: Just saw Brassos post, picturing GH and MC whacking that poor horse.... Edited May 2, 2012 by JimF-LowBari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 I don't really see any outstanding mistakes still to learn from... just a lot of decomposing mistreated horses. Attention should be focused instead on generating more cash to keep organizations stable and lower the barrier to participation to open the experience up to more kids. For the record... baseball is something that appeals to a broad audience. Marching band is a VERY niche activity... and drum corps is a micro-segment of the marching band niche. yes drum corps is nichey. But think of how many of the changes have driven fans away. and maybe you see no mistakes, but there are several out there if you look with an open mind. Many presented in this thread and many others. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielray Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 At least you're consistant, you ignore Jeffs point about "change for the sake of change" being detrimental and concentrate on baseball not being a nitch activity. And instead of any useful response to my post it's back to a beating a dead horse reference. LOL, trying to relate your methods to meetings/skull sessions where I work and don't think they'd go over too well. Edit: Just saw Brassos post, picturing GH and MC whacking that poor horse.... skull sessions??? if the image i have in my head just now is anywhere close, i suggest you consider changing jobs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 There is a couple of undeniable facts that we all should be able to agree upon : 1) Michael Cesario has brought forth a plea to Corps show designers within the last 2 ywars to try hard to design shows that have more audience appeal. Based upon this plea, it is clear to all, that there was a problem in audience appeal of shows. At least to highly regasrded Michael Cesario... a DCI Consultant. 2) Georghe Hopkins, CEO of The Cadets, in an interview 2 years ago lamented the fact that audiences of today do not appear to be positively reacting to shows as they once did. He could not explain why, but he did acknowledge the lack of connection with audiences of many modern day shows compared to earlier decades. Now, we can disagree with these Movers and Shakers observations of modern day Drum Corps shows and their level of appeal with general audiences, but we can not deny that these observations by them were made. Now, how the activity goes about trying to stem the loss of the numbers of fans following the activity is certainly open to debate and discussion. What is not in dispute however it seems to me is that in 2010, some DCI officials and Corps Directors had been noticing a problem of the collective appeal of Drum Corps shows with audiences. This does NOT mean however that ALL audience members were disapointed. These are things that I think we all should be able to agree upon. What the solution is, however, certainly remains open to debate and discussion. But in 2010, there was an audience problem. Few disagree with this fact it seems to me. OAnce we start with the fundamental premise that there was a problem of the appeal of shows to audioences, we can begin from that point to discuss what the solutions might be to the problem. I think 2011 had the best mix of shows that had something for everyone since...oh...probably 2002. I also wonder if the move to "bigger shows, fewer shows" has helped...lots of areas had shows, and no longer do. Some shows had a certain set lineup and now they don't. ( Houston for example). This continued push for bigger and better has actually taken drum corps away from places that did support it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 At least you're consistant, you ignore Jeffs point about "change for the sake of change" being detrimental and concentrate on baseball not being a nitch activity. And instead of any useful response to my post it's back to a beating a dead horse reference. LOL, trying to relate your methods to meetings/skull sessions where I work and don't think they'd go over too well. Edit: Just saw Brassos post, picturing GH and MC whacking that poor horse.... so you're just catching his modus operandi? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 (edited) I think 2011 had the best mix of shows that had something for everyone since...oh...probably 2002. I also wonder if the move to "bigger shows, fewer shows" has helped...lots of areas had shows, and no longer do. Some shows had a certain set lineup and now they don't. ( Houston for example). This continued push for bigger and better has actually taken drum corps away from places that did support it. I agree. I can only speak to my own sense of things... but collectively I saw improvements in the overall appeal of the shows. Lots of work still needs to be done, but there is a bit more variety of late, imo. DCI could really use a Corps that is totally devoted to comic relief each and every yearwith its theme, style, unis. etc too, imo.... ala the Velvet Knights. They were irreverent, and parody personified, imo... Bridgemen brought a bit of that too... but VK did parody and comic relief the best, imo. There was nothing better than having a Corps come onto the field that did not take itself too seriously in their show theme, immediately after a Corps that had a show that had a theme that was as brooding and as dark as the night.The contrast was striking and BOTH were needed, imo. Edited May 2, 2012 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 (edited) skull sessions??? if the image i have in my head just now is anywhere close, i suggest you consider changing jobs. Well my big bosses have experience in weapons.... big freakin' weapons.... Only guess I have at your meaning.... Edited May 2, 2012 by JimF-LowBari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielray Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 Well my big bosses have experience in weapons.... big freakin' weapons.... Only guess I have at your meaning.... never heard that term before. googled it. apparently it is less invasive than i imagined. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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