Old Vs. New = craft Vs. art

[ntflanni]

I have read numerous threads concerning the "old" and "new" drum corps and whether or not a certain era of drum corps is good or bad.

Her are my general thoughts on the matter, most of which were brought to my attention by BOTH old and young drum corps members.

We all know that drum corps is an art form, as with any musical idiom. According to Webster's Dictionary, art is "the quality, production, expression, or realm, according to aesthetic principles, of what is beautiful, appealing, or of more than ordinary significance". I would also like to state that art is CONSTANTLY a constantly changing thing. All one must do to see this is look at the changes in the works of Pablo Picasso. In 1906 he created "Portrait of Gertrude Stein". This work, for all intensive purposes, looks like a person.

Found Here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:GertrudeStein.JPG

Later, in 1910, he created "Portrait of Daniel-Henry Kahnweiler".

Found Here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Picasso_...weiler_1910.jpg

Honestly, I can't tell what the hell it is, but I still know it's art. I can still admire it for it's beauty.

Now let's talk about a craft. A craft is "an occupation or trade requiring manual dexterity". A craft is something that would be done repeatedly, like carpentry or pottery. An action that takes initial knowledge and doesn't change over time.

Now to my point. I think many of the older generation of drum corps want to see the activity stay the way it was, making it a craft, when it is not. Drum corps is an art form, and must constantly evolve in order to stay true to the definition of art. Take a look at Stravinsky's "The Rite of Spring". When it was debuted in Paris, it cause a riot both inside the concert hall and on the street. The older generation despised the sounds and displays of "vulgarity" which were being portrayed in the ballet, because as the older generation saw it, it was not ballet. The older generation is correct in that The Rite was not Swan Lake style ballet. We now see The Rite of Spring as being one of the most influential works of the 20th century. It enlightened many Modern composers such as Arnold Shoenburg, Phillip Glass, and Steve Reich.

We MUST allow drum and bugle corps to evolve to some extent in order for the younger generations engaged and excited about the activity. I think we should all realize that drum corps is a dying art form and it is not a viable choice to try and keep things as they are. By allowing younger generations to help mold drum corps into something new, at least drum corps will stick around.

NOTE: Drum corps (i.e. percussion and horns) should NEVER allow woodwinds, in my opinion. That would take it from Art Form to Crap

[bawker]

I think we should all realize that drum corps is a dying art form and it is not a viable choice to try and keep things as they are.

NOTE: Drum corps (i.e. percussion and horns) should NEVER allow woodwinds, in my opinion. That would take it from Art Form to Crap

. . .so which is it?

It's okay to admit you're like pretty much everyone else: "change is okay, as long as it's the kind of change I'm okay with".

[cowtown]

Maybe I should ask the mods to change my handle to Dinocorps

This reads to me like the work of a dorm-room drum corps radical

this old versus new thing is a bit threadbare and so often completely misunderstood

many dino’s throw out the old time stories as a point of reference – the youngin’ do this all the time too it’s just their point of reference is rather current – too many folks get all defensive and take it the wrong way

very few Dinos want it all old school just as very few youngin’s think everything new is the best – most like a combination of the styles

that really should cover most your OP but I’m guessing a closer review is in order

be right back with that and you’re not going to like it I’m guessing but there is so much wrong in it… I’ll be trying to help but many don’t see it that way, they’ll claim its another negative dinosaur attack…..you ever hear of GIGO?

[BRASSO]

I have read numerous threads concerning the "old" and "new" drum corps and whether or not a certain era of drum corps is good or bad.

Her are my general thoughts on the matter, most of which were brought to my attention by BOTH old and young drum corps members.

We all know that drum corps is an art form, as with any musical idiom. According to Webster's Dictionary, art is "the quality, production, expression, or realm, according to aesthetic principles, of what is beautiful, appealing, or of more than ordinary significance". I would also like to state that art is CONSTANTLY a constantly changing thing. All one must do to see this is look at the changes in the works of Pablo Picasso. In 1906 he created "Portrait of Gertrude Stein". This work, for all intensive purposes, looks like a person.

Found Here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:GertrudeStein.JPG

Later, in 1910, he created "Portrait of Daniel-Henry Kahnweiler".

Found Here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Picasso_...weiler_1910.jpg

Honestly, I can't tell what the hell it is, but I still know it's art. I can still admire it for it's beauty.

Now let's talk about a craft. A craft is "an occupation or trade requiring manual dexterity". A craft is something that would be done repeatedly, like carpentry or pottery. An action that takes initial knowledge and doesn't change over time.

Now to my point. I think many of the older generation of drum corps want to see the activity stay the way it was, making it a craft, when it is not. Drum corps is an art form, and must constantly evolve in order to stay true to the definition of art. Take a look at Stravinsky's "The Rite of Spring". When it was debuted in Paris, it cause a riot both inside the concert hall and on the street. The older generation despised the sounds and displays of "vulgarity" which were being portrayed in the ballet, because as the older generation saw it, it was not ballet. The older generation is correct in that The Rite was not Swan Lake style ballet. We now see The Rite of Spring as being one of the most influential works of the 20th century. It enlightened many Modern composers such as Arnold Shoenburg, Phillip Glass, and Steve Reich.

We MUST allow drum and bugle corps to evolve to some extent in order for the younger generations engaged and excited about the activity. I think we should all realize that drum corps is a dying art form and it is not a viable choice to try and keep things as they are. By allowing younger generations to help mold drum corps into something new, at least drum corps will stick around.

NOTE: Drum corps (i.e. percussion and horns) should NEVER allow woodwinds, in my opinion. That would take it from Art Form to Crap

Things change. Most people understand this. Few people want things to be frozen in time. What most of the veteran fans are perplexed with is the TYPE of change. They fought the battle ( many of them anyway ) over obtuse music with convoluted indecipherable themes, where we've reached the stage today that judges are admitting they don't know what the theme is all about, and as a result are now being asked to sit down with the show designer in preseason so that he or she can have it EXPLAINED to them what it is the Corps will be attempting to convey to the judges in their shows. Younger fans apparently seem to miss the irony in this. Veteran fans use this as a barometer of how far afield things have gone when not only fans have the confused look on their faces sometimes now, but now it has crossed over to the judges booth where the judges are apparently confused as well, otherwise they'd be no real need to set up pre season meetings for explanations to take place so judges might be less inclined to become confused once again come the summer to answer the questions of... " what is the show all about ?", and ...."where did you get this music from and who are the composers ?"..... , and..... " just exactly how do you believe the music, guard ,and the visuals fit the theme" ?

Edited March 12, 2010 by BRASSO

[perc2100]

It's okay to admit you're like pretty much everyone else: "change is okay, as long as it's the kind of change I'm okay with".

Exactly...

[perc2100]

In my opinion, as soon as we stop being actively involved in the process of drum corps (i.e. stop being a staff member, marching member, board member, designer, etc), and are involved only as an "outsider" fan, then the change/evolution of the activity is out of your (our) hands and the only thing you can do is either continue to be a paying consumer, or cease being a paying consumer. It really is that simple. Those of us who were active in the activity were involved for a finite time: once I stopped teaching, I stopped having any relevant insight or influence on the activity. The activity moved on beyond my "time," and was "passed" on to the next 'generation/era.' I can either continue to consume DCI products (go to shows, buy souvenirs, subscribe to Fan Network, etc), or I can move on to something else. Being a consumer gives me absolutely no other right or voice in regards to running DCI, designing shows, etc.

After I stopped teaching in DCI, I wasn't 100% happy with show design and rule changes at the time. I kind of stopped paying attention to designs, didn't go to many shows, etc. Then I came back around 2005ish, with the realization that the world moves on with or without me: changes were made, and will continue to be made, whether I like them or not. I can either embrace what I like and not focus on what I don't like, or I can just be bitter and pessimistic and walk away completely. That's the choice all consumers have to make about anything: accept it and continue to consume, or walk away if a product doesn't meet your approval. Drum corps is no different, and has certainly changed as much as other performance art forms (for example, look at TV content/trends from early 70's to today). If the paying audience refuses to embrace the direction DCI wants to go, I have confidence that DCI will seek ways to change in order to bring back an audience. But as long as people continue to consume, and DCI continues to be able to support itself financially, it will continue to evolve and change long after any of us are still around.

[cowtown]

this has to be a troll, right?

[Rimba47]

You said...

We MUST allow drum and bugle corps to evolve to some extent in order for the younger generations engaged and excited about the activity. I think we should all realize that drum corps is a dying art form and it is not a viable choice to try and keep things as they are. By allowing younger generations to help mold drum corps into something new, at least drum corps will stick around.

then you said...

NOTE: Drum corps (i.e. percussion and horns) should NEVER allow woodwinds, in my opinion. That would take it from Art Form to Crap

Art form to Crap? How many people who say "Synths take drum corps from Art to Crap" would you say are being "unprogressive". I generally agree with you but you can't be a hypocrite!

We MUST allow drum and bugle corps to evolve to some extent in order for the younger generations engaged and excited about the activity. I think we should all realize that drum corps is a dying art form and it is not a viable choice to try and keep things as they are. By allowing younger generations to help mold drum corps into something new, at least drum corps will stick around.

Last time I checked DCI doesn't poll younger generations on what they would like to see in drum corps. And they certainly don't ask alumni either. "younger generations" aren't the people who are moldin drum corps into something new. Its DCI staff, corps directors, designers (people of an "older" generation) that are molding drum corps.

I'd like to think that I can somehow change drum corps for the better but my "younger generation" opinion isn't necessarily a deciding factor in the future of DCI. Once I'm older tho... maybe... :P

Edited March 12, 2010 by Rimba47

[luvs me sum mello!]

. . .so which is it?

It's okay to admit you're like pretty much everyone else: "change is okay, as long as it's the kind of change I'm okay with".

Winner

[LSU GRAD 82]

very few Dinos want it all old school just as very few youngin’s think everything new is the best – most like a combination of the styles

Old school recognizable music and kick ### Guard work, combined with New Age drill would be great, but that's not what's currently being produced.............