Stu Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 (edited) I'm here to say I dont entirely disagree (nice double negative ) Anyway, at least three certainly knew exactly what was being proposed: Hopkins and Gibbs, because they drafted the proposal, and Fiedler because he was the Public Relations Point Man. So, which of the other four were stupid enough to be duped without actually reading the proposal before supporting it? Edited February 20, 2011 by Stu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 Question: Under the original G7/G8 proposal the G7/G8 corps themselves decided who would be in the group. IOW - placement didn't mean squat, only corps tha G7/G8 wanted in their select group. Are the corps allowed in the TOC still selected by the G7/G8 corps, by something else or nothing really said (out loud)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soccerguy315 Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 Question: Under the original G7/G8 proposal the G7/G8 corps themselves decided who would be in the group. IOW - placement didn't mean squat, only corps tha G7/G8 wanted in their select group. Are the corps allowed in the TOC still selected by the G7/G8 corps, by something else or nothing really said (out loud)? as far as I know, this is a 1 year trial, using the top 8 corps from 2010. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skywhopper Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 (edited) I have to agree with you on this one. My point is that some folks EXPECT this 8 to be permanent, and I do not. Further, volatility would be healthy...actually, very healthy for the activity. Some folks are proceeding under the erroneous assumption that the TOC 8 corps have been installed as permanent fixtures. Does anyone really believe that the members of the Madison Scouts, Boston Crusaders, or Blue Knights share this view? Or their staffs? I guess the concern is that the TOC will only further entrench the current top 8. Had this series happened last season and included Boston (7th in 2009) in place of Phantom (9th in 2009), would the extra attention and revenue from the TOC events (plus the negative effect on the non-TOC corps by having 5-8 dates with no top-8 corps in any non-TOC show) have changed the outcomes for 2010? Would the extra money and attention on Boston helped them, and the lessened money and attention on Phantom hurt? I don't think that's an unreasonable worry. Edited February 20, 2011 by skywhopper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 (edited) I guess the concern is that the TOC will only further entrench the current top 8. Had this series happened last season and included Boston (7th in 2009) in place of Phantom (9th in 2009), would the extra attention and revenue from the TOC events (plus the negative effect on the non-TOC corps by having 5-8 dates with no top-8 corps in any non-TOC show) have changed the outcomes for 2010? Would the extra money and attention on Boston helped them, and the lessened money and attention on Phantom hurt? I don't think that's an unreasonable worry. I think the non G-8 World Class Corps have a legitimate right to be concerned. Any time a Group Slotting System is created... even temporarily....within a competitive Division that right from the getgo establishes an advantage in competition for this season HAS to be of concern to those Corps that are not currently in the mix. What other sport advantages a competitor for this upcoming season based upon what that competitor did last year, or in previous years ? Any system that advantages a competitor in upcoming competitions to the exclusion of other competitors is a rigged system frankly. Some of us used to chuckle at folks that said that there is " slotting" in DCI. But let's face it, we chuckle no more at that. " Slotting " within the World Class Division... and the advantages that go with that ( ie, revenue, recruiting,etc )... is now in place for this season, and there is simply no denying of this fact. But hey, nobody said life has to be fair, so it is what it is, and we live with it, or move on. Edited February 20, 2011 by BRASSO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corpsband Posted February 21, 2011 Author Share Posted February 21, 2011 I think the non G-8 World Class Corps have a legitimate right to be concerned. Any time a Group Slotting System is created... even temporarily....within a competitive Division that right from the getgo establishes an advantage in competition for this season HAS to be ... What's the competitive advantage? Sorry just don't see this. More material to learn + more travel + less practice = Advantage? I suppose you could make some lame claim to marketing but this would assume an un-informed consumer -- can't see this applying to the judges. They know that TOC is a marketing spiel not a referendum on this year's performances. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 (edited) What's the competitive advantage? Sorry just don't see this. More material to learn + more travel + less practice = Advantage? I suppose you could make some lame claim to marketing but this would assume an un-informed consumer -- can't see this applying to the judges. They know that TOC is a marketing spiel not a referendum on this year's performances. It 's an advantage in recruiting. It is an advantage in revenues. It is an advantage in marketing the Corps. It is an advantage on the field of competition before the judges, as these Corps proposal called for them to be able to hand pick their judges in the future for their G-8. ( Say you're a DCI judge, do you want to stay at the Howard Johnson's Inn in Cabbage Patch judging the non G-8 in 2012, or be in a better hotel the night before the G-8 Competition smoozing with all the College and High School Band Directors, Equipment Mfg. hoi poloi in the hotel bar and lobby of the big city ? Which do you suppose is a better career move for you in the summer ? ) If you don't think the deck is already stacked against the non G-8 Corps this year in the World Class Division competition, then I really don't know what to tell ya. Edited February 21, 2011 by BRASSO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corpsband Posted February 21, 2011 Author Share Posted February 21, 2011 (edited) It 's an advantage in recruiting. 1.Not dramatically affected by 5 TOC shows. Finish order has always been a recruiting advantage. It is an advantage in revenues. 2.Yet to be seen.Depends largely on how successful these 5 shows turn out to be. It is an advantage in marketing the Corps. 3.See #1. It is an advantage on the field of competition before the judges, as these Corps proposal called for them to be able to hand pick their judges in the future for their G-8. ( Say you're a DCI judge, do you want to stay at the Howard Johnson's Inn in Cabbage Patch judging the non G-8 in 2012, or be in a better hotel the night before the G-8 Competition smoozing with all the College and High School Band Directors, Equipment Mfg. hoi poloi in the hotel bar and lobby of the big city ? Which do you suppose is a better career move for you in the summer ? ) If you don't think the deck is already stacked against the non G-8 Corps this year in the World Class Division competition, then I really don't know what to tell ya. Since DCI is running these shows -- not the corps themselves as in the rejected proposal --your entire thesis (shaky as it was) falls over completely. Rockford,Murfreesboro, Clifton?,Charlotte :sounds like hot times in the big city tonight :-) But maybe Houston will make up for it! And this ignores the entire suggestion that DCI judging is so corrupt that judges are bought and sold in the bar. If this is the case DCI has much larger problems then the TOC :-/ Edited February 21, 2011 by corpsband 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 What other sport advantages a competitor for this upcoming season based upon what that competitor did last year, or in previous years ? Any system that advantages a competitor in upcoming competitions to the exclusion of other competitors is a rigged system frankly. Yet this is exactly what NASCAR does. The top 35 in points from the previous season are guaranteed starting spots in the first five races each year. They implemented this rule because many times the second or third place points finisher from the previous season would occasionally crash during qualifying at the beginning of a new season thus destroying any chance for them to win the next championship. Fair or not, that is the reasoning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 (edited) Locked because....? Blue Devils currently have 55 straight wins(thanks goes to the research of fsubone) and they have not finished below 5th (just once in 1991) since 1975; The Cavaliers Have only finished lower than 5th once (7th in 1997) since 1985; The Cadets have only finished out of the top 5 once (sixth in 1991) since 1983; That is why I believe they are a lock for this years top 8. Should I go on? Edited February 21, 2011 by Stu 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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