scout9193

name='SACMellos2010' date='Jul 7 2010, 01:54 PM' post='2829930'] Thank you very much! That means a lot and made my morning!!! Wow!! I just realized your signature shows you marching 85-92! I can't imagine the ride from year to year between 85-92...to say I'm impressed would be an understatement. Im curious as to what you considered your most memorable/favorite year(s)?? 1988 is a personal favorite show of mine- I remember the Winston Salem show (my band hosted that show) and how you guys beat PR and Cadets surprising quite a few folks. I also remember in 89 how your drumline I think might have even won semis??? 1990---THAT hornline might be my favorite hornline I've heard live ever ( and I heard it a lot that year marching in Crown ) That being said please do share any memories from those formative years (85-87) What is it like to lug all that circuse stuff around? The precursor to really big contra lines in 86... coming out in 1985 and passing several established corps--how were you guys treated?? Sorry to ramble --would just love to pick your brain! Regards, CM

If memory serves we beat Star somewhere in WI at a small first tour show. I think we tied them the following night in IA (Bettendorf perhaps). I do remember the night we beat them it was hot a blazes (even in the evening) and during retreat some Star horn players fell out..I'd heard something about food poisoning?? I also remember hanging out some after shows with some of the Star hornline and Blue Coats members through out the tour..good times to be sure!! CM

There is no execution score. (unless you're on death row) What was execution? How well you did something? How can you determine how well you "execute" something unless you consider the challenge or the depth of design within what you're trying to execute? Since every corps plays different music and marches a different drill, simply counting errors doesn't work. A "frack" in Flight of the Bumble Bee is different than a "frack" in Mary Had a Little lamb. Achievement is measured by evaluating "What" you do, and "How Well" you do it. If you look at the current system, you will see this breakdown of "What" and "How" used throughout. The tick system was worthless as an instrument to measure achievement IMO. Now, lets hope the Scouts can work some magic this last week. Pardon me..."execution score" is my term- I should have indicated that. In my opinion counting errors can work if used in conjunction with a "build up" system. If corps "a" does something harder than corps "b" but does not peform it cleanly ( ie. execution ) then I don't believe it should be rewarded b/c they simply tried it. If you chose to play Bumble Bee vs. Mary had a Little Lamb that's fine'; but if it is not done well I don't feel it deserves a higher performance mark just b/c it was a harder piece to play. We had an instructor who would walk through the run through with a counter counting every little "tick" he saw. This helped us know immediately what things we needed to address from a field level "how well we do something" standpoint that helped us sell the product to both the fans and judges. We were clean in what we did... which resulted in generating "effect" and communicating the "idea" of the show as well as excitement at seeing something done precisely which was also difficult -at that time. the other night I believe there was a 3 way in salem. With all the differences between the shows I just find it hard to believe there was not some way to determine -between those 3 corps- who had done the better job. Let the ensemble and effect judges use a build up system but let the performance (field) judges use a break down system for errors. This is just the opinion of someone who -as a casual fan now- feels there is just too much subjectivity and personal opinion in judging the activity now. Right, wrong or otherwise this is simply how I feel. CM

I think the tick system had its place and perhaps still does as part of the execution score...

Not for nothing-- I caught the Nightbeat show and enjoyed it much more than I thought. It hit me that perhaps my mindset of the show before seeing may have skewed my initial thoughts on it. Looking back I do like the show much more now ( though the humorous stuff caught me off guard). I do wonder how much more I'd dig it hearing on G bugles as all corps just don't seem as loud to me now.. CM By the way--renewed the dues and bought a couple of shirts (good stuff this year!~)

Can someone reply with the address of the highschool where they are staying. Thank you, CM

But as I said 40 pages back, I think that Bluecoats showed us a little bit of the future tonight - I think that WGI-like one-time costumes will be replacing uniforms down the road - essentially putting the CG uniform on the whole corps. It will certainly make even larger drill sets possible, and might allow you to bring the CG into the horn block for some of the more intricate moves. It'll also be cooler (temperature) and relatively cheaper. Mike Mike- While I agree with your statement I have to respectfully say I find the above quote depressing. There is already way too much WGI influence in the activity now for my taste. I suppose I get beat up for saying that... CM

Based on what I've seen this show will get people talking... I'd say more but this is the friendly thread. blah blah blah ...typical crap from you ...blah blah blah

I guess I'm chiming in a bit late here but I remember a mello soloist from Florida Wave who sounded pretty darn good and nailed it on the recording I have somewhere. Anyone remember who this was? CM post script...found a cool link to 88 Fl Wave on youtube ( the song is the first one on part 2 )...go check it out

89-going undefeated most of the season, playing with the KC orchestra, our finals run. winning the final drilldown :) on the lighter side, our batman battle with Madison to see who could get the most batman crap on the field at retreat. ended when Spaz got a dead bat in a ziploc onto the field. My rookie year in 91 people were still talking about that!!

For you drummers--did the tenors have "scoops" on the bottom of their drums that year? I remember thinking they looked extremely heavy and having a very deep tone. Just curious, CM

The NEW paradigm understood by those REALLY paying attention lately is that the path to the DCI title is....... GUARD. You have the best Guard in the activity..... .... you become the DCI Champion. Though I actually deleted most of your post I feel you are right on! When the way of judging colorguard changed in the late 90's/early 00's the activity changed for the worse. It's not about M&M anymore as much as it is about moving Winterguard to the football field with a backup "band". Just look at the front page of DCI.org..the photo is not of the bluedevils hornline or drumline ( or even a picture of the entire corps on the field ) but of the colorguard. The activity has been driven way too much in recent years by over the top winterguard/colorguard "design first" staff and judges. Yep...I sound like an old fart--guess what I don't care. You have your opinion & I have mine ( and mine is right ) CM

Wow...I guess my memory has failed me...I've been trying to think of some others but I keep drawing a blank....I thought of Jason LaFlash but I think he aged out in 92? Emmet I think may have been with the jr's in 88. Help me out here..... Thanks, CM

Thought I'd come out of the shadows for this one... Of the 2 years I marched 91 was my personal favorite ( an quite frankly is the more underated program ). I really loved playing "Soup" but to be honest I even prefer the 81 version of "Numero Uno". As for the closer I remember several rewrites to the end before finally feeling like it had that Madison-ish feel to it -- I still believe that staff from 90-99 was one of the best ever in the activity... Visual: Mike L. Ivan, Scooter, Brent, Harmon (God does he still wear that "Lemon Squeeze" tee shirt??? ) the immortal Don Pitzer even ran some vis blocks (by the way ask the guys from 89 about how Don got them into shape for the opener "Make His Praise Glorius" THAT year!!! The one and only Mac--I never did know his last name-- who would come in mid season with his tick counter and just work us over and over.... Brass: Clay W., Van M., Scott B., Craig M. Anyway--93 was a good year with a lot of great memories :-) "What time is it?" "Time to stop losing horns to Phantom!!" We really did sound better in the arc I think. The other thing that really stands out to me from that year is that most of the "old breed"--the guys from 88 and earlier had aged out. I really can only remember like 3 guys who were still in uniform- Matt, Emmet, Bill....perhaps this was a bit of a year of transition? At some point before the season I'd heard staff was considering "Remembrance" as the closer..... To all my brothers out there- lots of miles since then but you are never far from my thoughts Clay Monroe

[it must hurt to be a Madison alumnus these days. With all due respect....IT NEVER HURTS TO BE A MADISON ALUMNUS....EVER!!!!!! I'm as proud now of the guys on the field as I was my 95 brothers. We all deal with the same crap every summer..what a Scout is beyond just what you see on the field still survives. I had a chance to see that first hand this summer in Michigan. CM

Think of all the good staff that left the organization. *Yes some left before 2003, but all of these people marched during the 70's, 80's, 90's and first few years of the 00's.* Staff that cannot be replaced (Just ask the other corps that have them now!) Bill Zeier (Blue Devils), Van Matthews (Blue Devils), Scott Chandler (BD), Todd Ryan (BD), Chris Harmon, Dave Koelz, Jaime Alvarez-Calderon (Cavies), Nick Williams (SCV), Jon Shipper, Matt Gregg, Aaron Bryan, etc. With all due apologies to butchering Mdscoutfan's post..just wanted to chime here on a few names... BZ- how active is he on staff with BD? Van- I understand he has backed off a bit as he has a wife and family now so I don't know how involved he is with BD. Man, oh man do we miss his teaching!! Scott- I think that his partner may actually be on staff with us right now?? That being said hasn't Scott taken on more of a Program Coordinator role with BD and not working with the guard as much? Todd- don't really know what he is doing with BD now..but he did write that great drill in 88. He did some work in 94 but that was all rewritten I was told. Chris- right on there!! He was awesome!!! Except for the #### Lemon Squeeze tee shirt! B) Dave- not a fan of his drill though I dont' know how he was as an instructor.. Shipper, Matt, Aaron....all great guys but not sure they are interested in coming back are they? A couple other names of staff that made a huge impact on me are Ivan ( Mike Burke ) and Clay Wacholz--who works with Phantom -at least some- now. CM By the way...I still say this show is really amazing to watch..it's just a shame it's not living up to the potential. It will still be a personal fav though...

Perhaps someone can refresh my memory. Based on what I've seen from the recaps tonight does it not seem that the same issues that plagued Madison in 2002 ( colorguard and visual-specifically ensemble ) still seem to be an issue again this year. I very much like the show this year but it sure seems like that monkey has decided to hop on our back again. I'm very proud of the young guys wearing the Superman suits but seem a bit perplexed that it appears we may have taken a step backwards some how. Or has there just not been the improvement in the colorguard department that I thought was taking place? This is by far the hardest drill I've seen Madison do...but is it just too much? Is Mr. Rosander the right person for the job? 3 drill writers in 3 years , to me, is much like changing head coaches for a basketball team 3 time in 3 years..different styles means learning all over again from square one. Is this an issue? For those that have seen them recently I would enjoy some thoughtful comments. To my brothers in uniform...keep at it...I'll still be yelling my head off for you next week!!!!! Clay M.

I'm certainly not the most active poster on DCP but every now and then someone types something that is truly special; and I feel I should contribute. First off, Phan77 THANK YOU!!! It seems to me that you get what it means to be a Scout and it was a pleasure to read your post. I've had lots of mixed feelings about the shows the last 3 years and this year was no different. I was fortunate enough to be in Michigan (btw- the state of the fastest drivers I've evern seen!) this week on business and saw the guys perform at Pt. Huron and last night in Belding. I'd read some -for lack of a better term- bad press about the show from fans and former members and was not too keen on things. I would go as far as to say I had a negative vibe before even seeing the show and the first night I spent way too much time looking for things they weren't doing well vs. what was positive. The one thing I did NOT do was take the time to speak to any current members or staff to get their feelings and thoughts. On the drive home I had a bit of an awkening as realized that I was acting not like a Scout Alumnus but as some sort of angry old fart who only saw the negative. I decided that the following night I would try my best to get rid of the preconceived notions and "from the hip" opinions and just watch the show as a whole piece. I also wanted to at least speak to some members if not staff personally. That moment driving down 94 after Tuesday's show may have been the catalyst to the revitalization of my pride of being a Scout. I realized that I had let others sway my opinion- and quite frankly I was embarassed. Last night I was able to clean my head and watch the show with an open mind. You know what- this might be the most bad ### Scout show since 1995!! I was absolutely floored!! This show is getting scored - in my opinion- pretty close to what it should be simply because the demand is amazing (more than I've EVER seen from a Scouts show) and right now it is dirty. But folks, OH MY, it is a monster!!!!! The guys are flat out moving!!!! More over there are pass-throughs and body movements that are nothing we as an organization have ever done - in my memory. The only thing that comes to mind is the monster snap turn we did in 89 during the opener- or perhaps the wedge spin from 88. All areas of the corps are exposed and are doing some serious work..the guard may well be doing the most equipment work I've seen in the last 10-12 years. I actually found myself a few times muttering " oh my "-- it is certainly not the same Scouts I marched. It is infinitely more complex, aggressive and physical. Gentleman I tip my hat to you. This show will be one I will look forward to seeing again in Atlanta and on DVD. As happy as I was about the early "demise" of Madison being false I must say that what made my night- and what I'll carry with me longer- was my meeting of some of my current Scout brothers and staff. To all my fellow alumni...take the time to speak to our brothers in uniform. To a man they when I introduced myself they just seemed to light up and be thrilled to talk to me. Guys, I really think they want to hear from us alumni..they love it in fact. I PROMISE you..they have the same war stories about cold backed up showers, roaches, hot endless days practicing in the corn fields of the midwest and totally kick butt practices. Moreover, they have a genuine appreciation and respect for what we did before. One other thing...I was under the misguided impression that most of the staff were not alumni. In actuality..there are atleast 6-8 on staff. Things change and I am not the most open person to that ( re: singing ), but last night left me with a wonderful feeling. What we were taught, what Madison is about- shaping young men into positive young men - still exists. That has not disappeared. Clay M.

With the largest hornline we've ever had no less (shakes head..) CM

This the best post I've EVER read on here! Semper Fi Travis! CM

Yeah...it's a war! I say let's meet in the parking lot after the show and starting beating each other with the horns! You know..a big rumble between Scouts, PR, and Coats...maybe throw Crown in for good measure! The best part is that we'll ruin our B flat horns, not have enough money for new ones from all the medical bills and lawsuits, and have to settle for buying some of those darned G bugles again!! (there is always an upside!) B) CM

Either way I'd be happy. After seeing the show in Sevierville, TN this is becoming my favorite bluecoats show ever..and quite possibily one of my favorite overall drumcorps shows. I just love the "groove" that it gives me. The drill is amazing, that drumline blows my mind, and that hornline is pure Bluecoats power. Having not seen PR -or my guys for that matter- this show is most certainly a potential top 4 program..just needs cleaning. CM