Tez

As for the "hate" for these three corps in the past decade, I think each is really a completely different situation. Cavies were disliked (to a lesser degree than the others) mostly because of success, but a little because of emphasis on visual, and other minor design reasons. Cadets were disliked almost entirely because of their use of the "new elements"... voice mostly, and some very different design elements (characters in 2006). I don't think the 'hate' was at all because of their success as Obviously 2006 and 2008 were not successful by Cadets standards. And I really never got the impression that in 2005 when they won, and 2007 when their nearly won, that anyone seriously thought they should be placing much lower. Those were some seriously performing corps and I think were highly respected as performers... with the hate really being thrown all at the design team (by that I mean mostly Hopkins). The Blue Devils recently I think have been disliked because of a mixture of success and design elements.... which has been discussed at length even in the past few days. So they get the double whammy of hate, which is why it has become so bad lately.

Basically... live at the actual shows, they were superstars. Evidence can still be found for this today. Haven't you noticed that still this year, even with them placing at the 7th-9th range all year, they still receive probably the biggest ovation when they come on the field as anyone? In my opinion, this is a direct result from their overwhelming connection to the more "casual fan" they had in the early 00's. On DCP, and among discussions with more die-hard fans, they did receive a fair amount of criticism.... mostly in my opinion because of their success, but also because of the extreme reliance on visual.

That's a pretty good analysis of corps' styles over the past decade or so, and is one of the things I find so interesting about the activity. I will point out that although the Blue Devils are on a ridiculous hot streak over the past six years (3 wins, 2 seconds (1 by .025), probably another win this year)... no other corps has been able to replicate their design philosophy, or for the most part performance levels (except for maybe Cadets last year... but still not solidly across the board as they lost several captions). Certainly there are several corps with far easier shows than the Blue Devils, which can't get anywhere near as clean as them still. And, what Crown is doing this year has become widely accepted as one of the most difficult shows ever attempted... and it is easily beating every other corps out there not from Concord by a pretty wide margin....even shows which seem cleaner. So no, I don't think corps will be moving toward more "cautious" show designs in the future.

I find this statement pretty ridiculous. You are saying that 100 mediocre corps would indicate a stronger activity than 30 quality corps? This is just not true. The doom-sayers keep going on an on about how weak the activity is. What if the way it is now is the strongest it could possibly be considering the point we are at in American society? I think the attendance at these major shows proves that the national touring model does work (people want to see all of the top 20 corps at the same place)... and maybe this is the only way that junior drum corps has remained in existence. So many have pointed out how all the changes over the past 20-30 years in administration, rules, touring models, etc... have killed drum corps..... what if those changes were the only thing that has kept drum corps alive?

Hey.. that's cool man, sorry if my earlier post made you feel 'dumb' or anything like that, not the intent. You have just as much of a right to be a fan of, and state your opinion about drum corps as the most musically educated of us. That's one of the things that is so great about this activity is how it appeals to people from so many different backgrounds. I will suggest however, that if you are so inclined.... check out some of the source material for shows each year. It may bring your appreciation/enjoyment of the activity to an even higher level. It is cool to be able to appreciate how music is adapted to the modern drum corps in a variety of fashions, from sticking close to the original (Crown's show this year), to being highly "arranged" (Madison Scout's show), to being a giant mixture of different pieces (Blue Devils). But of course, this is in no way required to enjoy drum corps as you have found out.... but it could be something to consider for future seasons.

"Fanfare for the Common Man" is one of the most famous orchestral compositions of the 20th century.... by arguably the top American composer of the 20th century. So I find it just a little strange that it "reminds" you of music from those movies.... shouldn't it be the other way around? This is kind of like when I played "Eine kleine nachtmusik" for my music students, and they claimed it was "Baby Einstein" music.

I'm still awaiting the expalnation for the Mighty Ducks reference.

Yes, because no corps has ever come from behind to win the championship..... well, except for: Cadets 2011 Phantom Regiment 2008 Cavaliers 2006 Cadets 2005 Cavaliers 2004 (and that's just in the last decade)

That was your experience... and I'm sure many had the same experience (mine was actually pretty similar to yours)..... but today there are hundreds of marching bands across the country that rehearse with an intensity at least approaching drum corps' (probably not the same hours, but in most cases, that is impossible, and in some places illegal). I think many on DCP underestimate how huge an activity marching band really is, and underestimate the quality of the top competitive marching bands. Yes, if a decent band school is not in your area, you are kind of out of luck, but for every one of those kids who wishes they had a better band to participate in, there's a kid who joins band just because his/her friends do it, and becomes hooked.

Blue Devils 2010 was pretty darn stunning!

As a side note.... I can't confirm this, but I have heard that Philip Glass charges nothing for marching bands (thus I would also assume drum corps) to arrange and play his music. Anyone else heard this?

Please read my follow up post (#66)... I think address both issues there.

I think it illustrates that even though more corps have folded than have not, the percentage of top corps that have folded is rather small. The top 17 current DCI groups are very strong, and have been for quite some time. Whether or not anyone will admit it, these are the corps driving drum corps at the junior level, and these are the corps people that primarily drive ticket sales/merchandise..... and for the most part that prospective members want to join. So I think it is important that we recognize that this foundation of corps has stayed strong. And again, as many on here have pointed out time and time again, the fall of so many drum corps have directly coincided with the rise in popularity of competitive high school marching band across the country. For many band kids across the country, it really is only these top DCI groups that offer an experience that far surpasses their own competitive band.

I think Cavaliers 2002 set a new standard in thematic cohesion, and probably a new standard in performance level. This was one of the first shows I think where the music was designed for the visual, just as much as the visual was designed to fit the music.

Yes, that's a lot of corps, and it is a shame we don't have them anymore, but...... of all of those corps, only the following ever placed inside the top 17 in World Class (div 1): Les Etoiles (96, 98) Academie Musical (97) Capital Regiment (02, 04-06) Kiwanis Kavaliers (96-98) Southwind (95, 99-01, 05) Magic (94-99, 02-04) And of these six, only Magic ever made finals. So even though we have lost dozens and dozens of corps over the past 20 years, only one could really ever be considered a perennial contender.

Just to clarify.... I never said there was little difference between the two shows.... just not as much as our current top 2 shows. And I'm not simply pointing out why I think today's corps are better... just that there is every bit as much of variety in today's shows as there has ever been, contrary to some people's opinions that all the corps do exactly the same thing and don't remain true to their identities.

To answer your first question.... yes. I just went and watched both Phantom and Bridgemen 1979 on the DCI Fan Network... with an open mind.... and they were actually more alike than I was expecting. I have seen the shows before, but I was surprised how "loose" Phantom was during parts of the performance... something I associated much more with the Bridgemen. Anyway.... the shows are much more alike than Crown and BD's 2012 shows in the following areas: timbral variety visual design (drill) visual choreography (dance, body movement) show pacing (opener, concert, percussion, etc... BD's 2012 show completely rejects this) show cohesion musical arranging Yes, the unis are more different, but the source music is about the same amount of "different," and marching styles actually seem more different to me in the modern corps, but that is difficult to tell. But the most important things to me in a drum corps show, I have listed above... and I find much more variety in 2012 Crown and BD. Again, I still find a great deal of variety in the 1979 shows, but I contend that the very constructs of what was acceptable as drum and bugle corps in 1979 was far narrower than what we have today.

The Blue Devils still play jazz... it's now just a kind of avant-garde jazz, with many more stylistic elements than just traditional big band swing jazz..... not that they ever really played that either. They became famous for playing stuff like Chuck Mangione, Chick Corea, Stan Kenton..... each of which in some ways are at the margins of "true" jazz anyway. So I would say that labeling the Blue Devils as the "jazz" corps is somewhat of an over generalization. They used to play a few different types of music that some would consider jazz, now they play some other types of music that others may or may not consider jazz. What is much more define-able is the style of arrangement the Blue Devils present... both musically and visually. And today, this is as distinctive as it gets. Take any 10 second segment of any of their shows the past few years, and it is easily distinguishable as the Blue Devils even you you had never seen it before and they didn't have uniforms on.... the style is simply that distinctive..... the same can be said for the Blue Devils BITD. The musical/visual presentation is what gave them their identity, not simply the source music. My point, is that while their identity has evolved over time, its strength remains the same.

... and as for corps identities and differing styles of shows.... You can't find two shows in the 1970s that are even close to being more different than Crown's and the Blue Devil's shows this year... and they are our top 2 shows! The design, marching style, playing style, etc... are light years apart, yet both remain at the top of the activity. So don't let anyone tell you that drum corps is being homogenized.

Yes.... genre (type) in music has to do with what is actually presented.... not how the original was presented. This is how it has always been.... it's just that BITD, corps were more likely to arrange a piece closer to its original format than they do now.

Yes, if modern drum corps was still like it was in the 1970s, I would have never become a fan. I may still think its cool, and appreciate it, but wouldn't be the die-hard I am today.

I guess Madison playing one of the most famous/important orchestral works of all time doesn't qualify as "symphonic?" Oh, that's right, the original version is for solo piano, so then it must be okay.

interesting that the "most correct" so far were 1989, and the 4 of the "tie" corps.... everyone remembers those years.

Yes, I agree with this assessment. I would have put them just slightly ahead of Jersey Surf... which would put them probably in 19th place, unless BDB or SCVC is even better.

Yea, I would have placed OC just below Pacific Crest on World Class sheets... that would be like a 71. Usually much more of a difference in scoring than just 7 points (78 to 71).