Dale Bari

I worked for the Baldwin Band in 2002-03. I recently asked someone on staff there what happened to the DCI show. He replied that DCI did not offer them the opportunity to put on shows this year as not enough corps were interested in/available for doing shows in that area. He also said the same thing happened to the EF show (which is coincidentally my alma mater, as well as my friend's.) The Baldwin Boosters were interested, but not allowed. Which is just as well, because I think the school and field are undergoing renovations, so putting on the show might have been problematic anyway. EF prob was still interested, and won't have any renovation issues.

Well, Nick, I might take a stab at this. I suppose one way to differentiate is to say that a show may be designed with minimal moments of someone talking into a mike (and not having seen Bluecoats last year, I don't know how "minimal" their talking was). And, if you didn't hear the talking, you might get the feeling something was amiss, but not so much that your enjoyment was lessened. That might be considered "non-altered". OTOH, if a show is designed with talking into a mike meant to convey much of the intent/message of the show, and if the mike suddenly was "turned" off, you get this feeling that something important was missing. That might be considered "altered". It's all very perception-oriented. If a show with amped talking in it gets "unplugged", how much of it will the viewer know he's missing? Also, I offer this comparison: If Bluecoats had removed the amps from their show, and at the critical moment the whole corps (or a significant fraction) yelled, "You have the right to remain silent!" as they would've in the "good" old days, pre-amps, everyone would still have gotten the point. And if that was the only vocal (or maybe two or three total), no one would've considered that excessive. That might qualify as "non-altered". But, to have the whole/large fraction of the corps doing the Cadets' narration, sans amps, many people would be saying, "Hold on a minute! That's too much!" It would probably be an unwieldy device. That might qualify as "altered". As I said earlier, many anti-amp people feel it necessary to offer an example of amped talking that they like as evidence that they aren't anti-change. So, that may be why you feel confused as to whether one of those someones opposes amps only in quantity or on principle. Someone may say that moment was pretty funny or whatever, and still oppose amps in principle, because, as I describe above, that moment could be replicated w/o amps. The "This I Believe" moment could not. I don't know, was that good enough?

Never said you were. If the Erie folks think that theirs is a great site for Finals, they would have looked seriously at submitting a bid. <$1 to Jeff Ream> Rochester will be finished, what, next year? So, DCA will need a new site. If it's held in Scranton again, or elsewhere similar, all that will be discussed in this forum will be how the NE keeps puttin' down the rest of DCA. Erie, at least, will be a move westward. Besides, Erie is closer to us than Rochester, and we'll be driving right past my parents' place, so the kids can see their grands. As for actually holding DCA in PittsburgH, as I see it, there is not really a suitable stadium. Heinz Field will be too expensive to rent for DCA (not to mention too big). Univ of Pitt Stadium is gone. Carnegie Mellon's field is too small (and no lights). While many now have turf surfaces, the local HS stadiums nearby have at least one detrimental feature: bad parking, too small or low stands. The case may be the same for Cleveland. However, Akron might be a good alternative. It's as far west as Cleveland, only 35 miles or so (mostly interstate hwy) from the Cleveland airport, and the Univ of Akron Stadium (The Rubber Bowl) holds 35,000 people. (So figure up to 12,000 concert side seats.)

I reversed that order. I did my first drum corps show (1987 Danville, PA, exhibition) then I graduated the next afternoon.

$500K? Is that to each and every corps, or a flat rate to all the corps? (confused, since "corps" is both singular and plural)Actually, that seems too much like a bribe (or extortion). Let's modify Tom's offer: the anti-amp folks can offer to buy the amp equipment from the corps that they don't wish to use them. All each corps has to do is show how much it paid for the equipment originally (via receipt or cancelled check) and promise not to buy replacement equipment for say, 10 years, or whatever the expected lifetime of the amps is.

So, is your strategy to get the BOD to reverse its decision, or to just get the corps to swear off using amps? Because those are the only 2 ways to actually end this debate. (Well, the third one is to give up, but your position denies that option.) Considering that virtually every WC DCI corps uses amps for their pit, you'll never completely get rid of them because of that use alone. Now, maybe you can get their usage limited to that one only, which means that you'll need to get the BOD to eliminate the sentence in the rules that allows human voice to be amped. Of course, that also means getting a reversal on the amping of brass starting next season. And if you're just relying on the corps to ignore amps and just not use them, that kind of unofficial embargo would be hard to hold together. I applaud your stick-to-it-iveness, but I am not sure how you're going to get it done. "Good luck in your quest, Dr. Jones" (Kazim, Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade)

The problem with this debate is that some things get mixed in with others that bear little resemblance, not on par with "apples" vs "oranges", but close. "Amps" covers quite a bit of ground: pit/front ensemble, singing, narration (and soon to add brass). And, the narration itself can be split into 2 types of uses, incidental (07 Crown comes to mind) vs critical (07 Cadets). On top of that, the criticism of amps can break down into 2 types, technical (buzzes, feedback) and creative. So, how does one begin to untangle those lines? How does one define where they stand on this issue? If you hate narration but like solo singers, are you anti-amp? If you think that it's great that the pit is amplified but don't want the brass amped, are you pro-amp? Further, someone (Scerpella?) mentioned Lee R's description of DCI's conflict of interest inherent in its self-governance. Added to that, the directors, having been tarred by amping opponents, now can't let amping be seen to hurt DCI, which further stirs the bouillabasse of points making up this debate. Then, there's all the hypocrisy involved. People who dislike amps usually feel pressured to prove bona fides that they aren't totally opposed to change, and so cite uses of amps that they find somewhat acceptable, even though that admission will usually undermine their position. People who like amps will argue that amps are crucial to the evolution of DCI, both in the actual on-field product as well as in the generic creative process. Yet, when confronted with questions about how they are judged and should problems in their usage count against the corps' score, they argue that amps are irrelevant to the score, like a soloist who cacks his feature. So, which is it, crucial or irrelevant? In the end, as much as I dislike the blurring and erasing of boundaries in DCI, it is plainly obvious to me that this fight is over, and amps aren't going anywhere. We can continue having this endless debate until something new comes along to stir the passions (synthesizers, anyone?), and as much as I like a hearty argument to get the heart pumping, it's all a waste of breath (figuratively speaking here, of course). It is a tribute to the passions involved that this thread has erupted into this many pages so quickly, but that passion is now nothing but spent energy that uselessly dissipates into the ambient environment.

Weather.com forecast for Wildwood, NJ, 6/21/08: Hi: 81F Lo: 67F Scattered T-storms (30% chance) Rel Humidity: 60%-ish UV index: 9 (very high) Wind: 8 mph, from SSW. Sunset: 8:28PM Yeah, it's always variable, even from this close, but then the headline on weather.com says: "Weather Pattern Stuck in Neutral: The weather pattern across the country is stagnant and should not change significantly through the end of the week." Sounds like Wildwood is the place to be this Saturday (unless you're in Toledo, OH).

Nor me. It was already in a top 4 spot.

Hey. At 1:00 I see that 3 of the top 4 threads are about Statesmen. (Must be a conspiracy)

Yes, in the yellow shirt. There are some ringers in there (hint: anyone not in white/gray shirts, at least in the bari line). In the bari line pic, I see Ken, NORM!, Kris, David O., T-roy, Cooley-O, Juice, Gee-off, Adam, Leslie, and the Matts on euph. And, that's without looking too hard! We miss you guys.

I currently do not march (due to the kiddies), but when I did, I traveled from/to various places. 1987: Pittsburgh - 30 miles/45 minutes 1996, 97, 00, 01, 02: Pittsburgh to Rochester - 280 miles/4.5 hours 1999: Newport News, VA, to Rochester - flew (but was 560 miles if I drove) 2003: Pittsburgh to Syracuse - 370 miles/6 hours. 2005, 06: Fairfax, VA, to Rochester - 400 miles/7 hours. The longest trip to a show was Newport News to Madison (1999), but it was partly drive, partly fly (DC to Chicago): 1,000 miles (if driven all the way) The longest drive to a show was Fairfax to E. Providence, RI (2005): 422 miles/7.5 hours The shortest drive to a show was Butler to Pittsburgh (2002): 30 miles/1 hour. (All distances/times are one-way.) For the purposes of the poll, I was always 51+ miles to rehearsals and shows.

You can't see Juice? He's the first one my eyes locked in on. Juice is a one-of-a-kind, can't-miss-him guy!

Cool. Thanks.

Affffffpt.... Afterrrrr.... After shhhhhhh.... I guess I can't. PS: Hey, didn't we do that recently? What, it's been 3 years already? Time sure does fly.

Well, when can Edie get unis in 18 months size? I know you'll represent us well w/ the DCI types. Enjoy time w/ Cadets, Gmen, and the rest. The links look better, Ken. Any pics of just the baritones? PM me.

Tamm & I miss you guys immensely, and we're very sorry that we cannot make the big Alumni weekend (twins' 1st birthday party in Pittsburgh the following Sat), as well as the DCA debut of the 2008 Statesmen. We will try to catch the corps at a couple of closer shows (right now that'd be Lewisburg and Scranton), and Finals too. See lots of familiar faces in the (1) pic in Ken's post that I could see. Good luck, and knock 'em out in Toledo Saturday.

Doc Z does great work. Box 5. I am always impressed with his posters. I've never seen this kind of thing from any other drum corps. (Heck, from any other org, period - even movies aren't advertised so well anymore.)

Thank you for your passionate, yet balanced response. As for "what you're going to do with me" let's hope it is actually nothing, as my wife might have something to say about that! In the heat of argumentation, sometimes positions get hardened a little too much for anyone's good. I sincerely doubt that this situation will be explained to everyone's satisfaction in an expeditious manner. But, I hope that DCI and the corps use it as a lesson learned for the future because they have chosen to travel to a distant destination through uncharted waters strewn with more hazards like the one we've been dissecting. Again, thanks for your explanation.

Ya know, I did get that, but ... I don't know, I guess my return serve just didn't quite reach the "funny" threshold. Ah, c'est la vie!

At least one person, Jeff Ream, announced that he did send DCI an email requesting clarification, and has since still not received any reply. I don't know that he posted the exact text he used, but knowing Jeff from his posts here I trust that he did not come off as a raving lunatic. Also, I believe that someone else had emailed the Blue Devil organization for clarification, but I am not sure of that. (It's simple enough to check.) Now, you are apparently assuming that, simply because some posters in the thread were positing some not so very "nice" things about DCI (IYO), anyone requesting information from DCI or the individual corps MUST have been doing so in an "inquisitional" manner. That's a highly dubious assumption. Maybe you are confusing the posts with the posters. Or maybe since others have positions that you don't believe in, you likewise are unable to believe that no one else could possibly write such an innocuous email as you could to elicit any possible answers. It appears that you are painting with a broad brush anyone holding an opinion different from yours as unable to put together a cogent and respectful missive requesting information. Your post was at least in part to show yourself as the "lone voice of sanity", keeping your own head, while all about you everyone else was losing theirs. As for this: "My post was not, as has been hypothesized, a matter of a childish comeback of "That's for me to know and you to find out, nyah.'" As with Liam, my line was a general comment. If that caused a sting, you should try to be less sensitive.

Speaking of privileged conversation ... IIRC the DCP policies say that a user is not allowed to post emails exchanged with third parties. Of course, that begs the question of why someone would say they possessed certain emails, knowing he couldn't post them. [Other than the obvious reason - which can be interpreted as a childish comeback: "That's for me to know, and you to find out, nyah!"] Considering the silence so far on the subject of audio's question, methinks you're all going to have a long wait.

I like Frontier. The direct DC-Denver flight was very nice. DirecTV in every seat, a deal at $5, I thought.

OK. Tom wins!

Well, it was 10 when they first made the deal. Then, the trouble all started. Just so long as nothing happens, Heaven forbid, that will cause it drop to 8.