dcialumni1989

As a collective, yes, but there were some groups in the G7 that were just along for the ride because they had no choice.

Not all of the G7 corps demanded that.

Agreed. This also assuming that the G8 concept will exist next year. There are lots of ideas that come and go in DCI. Remember OnQ? Very similar to this TOC thing (but with clinics instead of shows) that never got off the ground.

Yeah I saw that. Very strange

Those weren't TOC shows.

The Blue Devils have a great staff and tons of talent. Don't ever count them out of it.

I agree. I am not going to get into the discussion of what corps are doing more than others. That is for the judges to decide, because everyone thinks that THEIR CORPS does MORE than everyone else. I actually don't think that the cavaliers do more than everyone else. I think they are different. The do more in their own way, just like BD does more in their own way. It is all relative and it all gets sorted out in the end (as long as it is clean). What is bothering me a bit is how all of the sudden people are enraged about a couple of corps (BD & Cavaliers) not being complete. I have been around the activity for a while and it is normal for a few corps to not being done the first few shows. The reasons for not being done could be a multitude of things. I can tell you that it is not for lack of effort or planning (especially not for the big boy corps). Either way, I could care less. It just perplexes me that people can be so angry about a couple of corps not being complete on June 18th. It's June 18th for cryin out loud.

The other corps outside of the TOC representatives got more time to work on their show. Less time traveling and performing. They also don't have to rehearse all of the extra stuff for encore that the TOC corps have to. That is a pretty huge advantage.

There really is no need to make excuses for them. They are obviously the front runner right now. They marched all but the last 45 seconds of their show at the first couple of shows. 10 minutes of show was on the field and they beat everyone because what they had on the field (even with the last 45 seconds - 1 minute standing still) was deemed by the judges to be more effective and better performed than everyone else. Also, more sets to learn = more time to learn it. That is just how it is. They have a lot of drill in their shows. They always do. So it takes them a bit longer. The crowd and the judges seemed to like what they were doing just fine. It is the people who are getting beat and the people whose favorite corps are getting and the people who just want something to complain about that have a problem with it.

I absolutely agree with everything that you said.

No offense taken. There are LOTS of things missing from the show right now. Last year Mad World didn't make any sense and the corps was BAD for the first few weeks (nearly a month) of the season, but they kept adding, layering, changing, and cleaning until they got a pretty great product by the season's end. I think they have a better shell and a better start to the season with this show, but there is a lot to be added.

Where did I say that anyone should play loud without regard of tone quality. I certainly didn't suggest that Andre taught that way. If I did, please point out it out.

I have nothing against the Vanguard. I love the Vanguard. I do not like the way the current brass staff teaches people how to play the horns. That is my anger. SCV deserves better IMO. Also, I have listened to the source music and the music of Legiti and Dorman is not really minimalist. It is post-tonal, which doesn't bother me. Minimalist music would be John Adams or Steve Reich, which I also like. What I don't care for us PASSIONLESS brass playing that I can barely hear. Andre Feagin teaches his groups to play with passion. The UH guys in my opinion do not. They turn brass playing (and music making in my opinion) into a purely academic exercise. Finally, never once did I say that I like it when groups play out of control. I hate when groups play out of control. I hate it when groups make bad sounds. Earlier I referenced the CSO brass along with many other groups. Those groups play with passion, and they fill up the horns, and they are completely in control. To me, all of those things are indicative of great brass playing. Once I begin to hear and feel those things going on with SCV I will be happy to give it a rest. Actually, I will give them all the props in the world.

I have worked around or with both Andre and the current brass staff, they are VERY different. Andre marched and taught Phantom and taught Crown. That is a VERY different from what the UH guys do.

Because of this quote right here: That is exactly what bothers me. It is the idea that a group (or in this case, a staff) is not going to "play the game," but they still expect the competitive rewards. I remember hearing those same guys when they were at The Cavaliers telling their members things like "what we do here is so far beyond everyone else..." or "the judges are too stupid to understand what they are hearing," and they would expect to get the competitive rewards even though they weren't playing the game. Now they are teaching at The Christmas Cavaliers, I mean The Cavaliers West, I mean The Santa Clara Vanguard and are doing the same exact approach that they did with The Cavaliers, but with less talent now. I am sorry, it is not going to work. Also, I don't buy into the whole "this is a wind ensemble sound," it's not. It's a Texas high school band sound. Those bands sound great, but they sound nothing like The Marine Band or The Dallas Wind Symphony or The Tokyo Kosei, or The Pershing's Own. Those groups fill up the horns and play with passion. I especially don't buy into it when I hear them say that their model for brass playing is the Chicago Symphony. The CSO brass plays with balls. I used to live near Chicago and have been to my fair share of concerts there and those guys let it rip. They played nothing like how these guys teach how to play the horns. Anyways, just my thoughts....

Right. But it isn't even up to par standing still though....

Interesting. To me I hear bad sounds, bad intonation, no dynamics, and lots of people flat out not playing out there. As someone earlier on here said, there are lots of leakers in that hornline right now.

Yes. Last year the Brass Caption Head was Andre Feagin. This year Jeff Fiedler brought in David Clemmer to run the hornline. David and nearly all of his staff taught at The Cavaliers for years and were let go after the 2009 season. They are all from the UH (Eddie Green method) school of thought, which in my opinion only works in this activity if you have tons of talent, which SCV clearly does not have.

The IYM's are junk IMO. They are so heavy that they deaden the sound. There is no ring or vibrancy to mouthpieces that are that thick and heavy.

Interesting. The standstill told me that they couldn't play the book. They sounded bad and got buried by the drums standing still. If that is the case, they have no shot on the move. I don't see any scenario where SCV moves into the top 5. The show is ok, but the hornline is horrible and knowing how those guys on staff teach there, they won't be able to get them to play this book in time to be competitive for the top 5.

Agreed (see my revised statement above), but I do think the drums could still get held back down the road by the rest of the corps if things don't get better from the hornline pretty soon. It is hard to win a caption if you go on 9th or 10th from the end, which SCV very well could if they don't get a lot better soon. The judges are supposed to leave room in the numbers to account for other corps that have not performed yet. Now, if SCV is in the 6th or 7th spot as a full corps I think they are in great shape for the caption award. Man they are good.

I saw SCV last night in the theater and I need to revise my stance on this. That drum line is amazing. Crazy good. They could absolutely win drums, even with the full corps struggling as much as they are. The pit is not on the level as some of the others out there just yet, but man that drum line is incredible.

You know that BK beat SCV last year right?

I hear it is, but I am going to the theater thing today and will get back to you tonight.

I agree completely.