TastyWaves

The real life answer is that many high schools would DESTROY some of those "lower echelon" drum corps. Drum corps are not great just because they exist. Some corps are pretty bad technically but hopefully, they are getting something else out of the experience. Just being honest, I used to teach a div 3 corps. I can think of about 20 high schools off the top of my head who were better on the field than we were. We had kids off the street who had never played a horn or drum before so its no surprise. That corps had massive potential and unfortunately folded before that potential could be realized, but the last time we were on the field, it was not something that would score really high at BOA finals. In many cases also, its about the instruction. its about the arranging. Its about the administration. High schools that are very highly competitive dont have the hurdles to overcome that many drum corps do. In a highly competitive scholastic program, you are not worrying about if you will have a bus, gas for the bus, how to transport your equipment, or the quality of your instruction or arrangements. Will any high school beat a DCI finalist? no. but there are corps that from a technical standpoint would not measure up to a superior high school program.

We can even argue over a laundry detergent commercial if it in some way involves drum corps! lol. I think its great. Anytime our activity gets some exposure is a good thing. And in any case, this wasnt "The Blue Devils" nor was the commercial intended for a drum corps audience. I think most of us in the music world have to settle for something kind of "Silly" to pay the bills. How many great rock drummers ended up in really sh*tty bands just for the payday? Anyone ever hear of Rod Morgenstein? Professor of Music at Berkeley College of Music in Boston Massachusetts, AND the drummer for "Winger". lol. LOTS of talent there going toward a very simple cause. Millions knew him for winger while maybe a few hundred knew him for being a prof. Same in our activity. RCC Marching band being in Austin powers pretending to play got more exposure than all of the actual shows they ever marched. I just think its neat that there is any demand for what we do because people think it looks and sounds cool.

Amazing. Fun. Chills. Excitement. Power. Flare. Pizzaz. And a lot of other words describe the scouts. But "innovation" is probably the least descriptive word for any of the 90s Scouts corps. They did "already been done" over and over, but did it AMAZINGLY well. In many cases, did it better. But they didnt "innovate" anything. And that shouldnt be taken as an insult. I dont think they were TRYING to innovate.

I would argue they have done that. Last year was fantastic for me in that regard. Dont get me wrong. I dont always LOVE the show itself. lol. 2010 I do think should have won based on the competitive criteria, but I definitely do not listen to or rewatch that show like I do Phantom 2003, Phantom 2010, Blue Devils 1994,95,96 and many others. But they certainly HAVE combined the artistic design along with at least for me, a great deal of entertainment.

More of this garbage. So do I not count? I am a fan and I love their shows. But if YOU Dont like it = "They dont care about the fans". My god the arrogance.

Could be really cool in some indoor applications or for stage shows and other things. Logistically i dont see them working out on the field without some very expensive add ons. As a whole, I think these are phenomenal, but just probably wouldnt go through the effort on the field.

I went the opposite route with this. I read all of these threads, and THEN I read the article. It only confirms what I already know which is the silliness of DCP. The way the story has been twisted and the ridiculous speculations and of course trademark bashing all took place based on this? Not to mention the far reaching speculation on other things not at all related. In any case, I am disappointed about the actual news. I marched under Eric and I think he is one of the greatest designers and greatest people I have been privileged to know. I was and am still excited to see what Cadets2 brings out this year. Everyone acting like its gonna be terrible just because they have the textbook faux "Hatred" for Hopkins are going to be severely disappointed. I just watched their february camp video and its already better than 90% of what I have ever heard out of a DCA corps. I marched 3 years in DCA, but I agree that C2 brings a certain legitimacy to the table. I am a High School band director and although I have only ever given great testimony about DCA and encouraged my students over the years to check it out, very few have been willing. There is a very real sense among young people that the only "legit" corps up to now has been the Bucs (or the Brigs back in the early 2000s). I think that has started to disappear as the overall quality has improved but C2 will give that process a nice shove in the right direction. Obviously not on DCP, but with younger students who are still weighing their drum corps options, it does. There is a very real buzz about this corps.

I would go with Marching Tenors. The average corps has as little as two players and as many as 5 (6 on rare occasions). So if there are ANY vets marching its gonna be tough sledding. Especially in the upper level corps. If Blue devils is marching 4, and there are 3 vets, there are still a few hundred video submissions and live auditions for that spot. Same applies naturally to Bass drum. Snare drum is tough too, but you figure simple numbers are higher. The average upper level corp marches 8 or 9. 4 vets, you still have a prayer with four or five open spots. All sections are tough at the top though. Lets face it.

I tend to completely agree with you. I was teaching drum corps in 2003/04 which unfortunately inherited Premier equipment. They were unbelievably difficult to work with and the quality of the equipment was awful. Ludwig on the other hand was only guilty of not being named "pearl" or "yamaha". I marched on Ludwig equipment my first year in the US Marine Drum and Bugle Corps. I think we put our equipment through more punishment than anyone out there and those drums sounded great and really help up well. Particularly the snares and bass drums. The tenor drums I wasnt crazy about, but ALL companies have issues. That being said, this was a VERY long time ago for both companies. I like to think that anyone is capable of improving themselves by putting in the time money and effort and perhaps these new incarnations of drums will work out well! What really surprises me is the amount of players trying to jump into a tough business in a tough economy. I think the "Big 3" have to still be Pearl/Adams, Yamaha, and Dynasty in the marching world. Ludwig/Musser is also a player in the game with a good quality line (Especially of mallet equipment). Not so much in drum corps but in HS or College groups. To that we added Mapex/Majestic a few years ago who are very viable and now Tama are making drums which are apparently very good and Premier back in the fold. Its either brilliant or suicide. On one hand, its a niche market for a niche activity. The real money is in the HS/College/University bands so you have to try to crack that group. There is not a lot of money out there and unless a lot of schools have a good reason to switch, most tend to just stick to what they know. On the other hand, the "big 3" have not done much in the way of giving better pricing during the economic down times so maybe these other companies will hit the phones hard and just seriously under bid the big 3. The problem is a lot of schools (and obviously drum corps) want to keep everything uniform. Pearl/Adams is a "one stop shop" where you can get all drums, concert, front ensemble gear and hardware. Pretty much everything except cymbals or "international drums". I think this is where Ludwig/musser can make a splash. The schools arent just buying for their marching band, but for the music rooms as well. I think Tama is going to have a tough time landing a "big player" without a line of Front Ensemble or any major tie ins for price breaks. sorry to get on a tangent!lol

Not everyone is a DCP addict with 10 years of reading and memorizing all posts. I have been around for a few years, but only a once every few days or weeks and I dont read every post. I personally found this thread to be pretty interesting. Its also nice to see a thread that contains some talk about an actual event that happened rather than a "my corps is better than your corps" or "the judges hate my corps" or "i hate electronics". In addition, once you saw the thread, you had the option to keep right on walking by! Thats like going to see a movie you know for a fact you dont want to see and then complaining about having to see it.

It was a cute moment and I agree it was entertaining from the stands. But if they were "in the hunt" and really competing, I dont believe it would have ever been added. They were second to last place in prelims almost 2 and half points above last place. They knew it was not likely going cost anything as far as upward or downward movement. Yes, "anything can happen", but someone making up two full points from prelims to finals is rare. especially on the lower end of Div 2. So again, it was cute, but not quite the heroic moment it was made to be. I had 7 of my high school students who were in that show and based on what they told me back then, this move wasnt necessarily embraced by all. Many felt that it was an act of "giving up". The types of kids who march drum corps have a very competitive spirit. Even in the corps not necessarily contending. I know I wouldnt embrace giving away points regardless of the circumstances. I do see what they were going for. They were not competitive so "play to the crowd". Thats commendable, but again I am just pointing out the context.

I totally get that. Thats why I showed BDB (A top level Open Corps) and Velvet Knights (A lower tier Open class corps) to illustrate that there are differences. But again, my point is simply that no matter which corps we are talking about, they all do more than any DCA corps in terms of time commitment and "touring". There may be some that I am unaware of, but its my understanding that at the least, each corps will "tour" its way out to indy over the last week-10 days. I am not aware of any DCA corps that do more than 1 full day per week. Most do a short friday night, a full day saturday (which is short if there is a show) and a half day on sundays. In the bucs we had an extra day before Rochester (in 06 anyway). But nobody doing anything like 5-10 days straight. I am sure someone will correct me if I am wrong about an isolated corps or two but again, my point is that MOST will fall into a certain model.

Im not sure from some of the posts here that everyone has a full understanding of the DCI Open Class model. Some people clearly think its "Weekends only". Untrue. Taking from the Blue Devils B corps schedule, From June 15th to June 30th (Before they even leave for tour) they have a full days rehearsal or a rehearsal and performance all by 2 days. 14 Days in that span they are working. No DCA corps does that. I marched 3 season of DCA including one championship season and the most we ever did was fri/sat/sun and one thursday during DCA week only. Then the first 3 weeks of July they are going 6 days per week. So put that together and between June 15th and July 21st, they only have like 4 days off. Then they get a little lighter and on August first all the way through finals, they are just about every day again. Thats WAY above anything any DCA corps. The Velvet knights have a full weekend camp in june followed by a week off followed by 2 full weeks to end june, and then continue almost daily through july with only 4 days off and 3 designed travel days. The DCI Open model is closer to being a full touring corps than it is to being a DCA or true weekend model. Again, DCI Open and DCA are not an "Apples to apples" comparison.

Some people are only happy if they get to whine about something.

Saying "high school" as a generalization isnt always accurate. Same as the assumption that all drum corps rehearse more. I taught a DCI div 3 corps for awhile and our schedule paled in comparison to the high schools ive taught. right now we run competitive Marching Band starting in mid-May, weekly rehearsals and minicamps all summer, 2 weeks of band camp, then 3 rehearsal nights per week and 2 performances (games and contests) on Fridays and saturdays and usually extended rehearsal days on Saturdays. The week after band, we start Indoor percussion 4 days per week including all days on saturdays and minicamps over holiday break. in the end, it probably equals out to a lesser operating drum corps.

True that. Very good points. And i should add, yes. I meant at the beginning. lol I would hope that if they were seriously wanting to invest and be players in the game, that they have a long term strategy with manufacturers or plan to begin to manufacture other products. Like Pearls pairing with Adams, Ludwig and Musser, Mapex/Jupiter, and of course the monster that is Yamaha who can sell you everything from your snares, to tenors, to marimbas, to trumpets, to tubas, to equipment trucks, hot dogs, peanut butter, (okay.. exaggerating now). but you get the idea! lol.

I think Tama needs to focus 100% of their marketing to colleges and universities or parade bands. Most competitive programs really want a package deal as it brings the costs way down. ESPECIALLY on Shipping. (A lot of people dont realize how much that part costs but its EXPENSIVE) High schools arent as bound by "package deals" so many high schools, even competitive ones could get in there because they dont HAVE to match at that level, but many still prefer to. But with colleges, you sell 10-15 snare drums, 4-8 quad kits, and from 9-13 bass drums in one shot. With a few exceptions, they dont even have front ensembles. You sell a lot of equipment to a reliable entity and there is your market share! If they spend their time trying to sell to top 5 DCI, they are going to have a lot doors shut in their faces. It sounds like they have a good plan though. They have great people involved, and they didnt just wake up yesterday and start cranking out drums. They have been at this for a few years now and the product looks and sounds great. Some top notch scholastic programs have already used them and i think its a very viable product. They just have to stay patient and market themselves correctly.

Some friends and I were having a spirited debate about the state of judging. I wont specify, but one opinion was that the judging is pretty fair and not necessarily biased toward 1 or 2 groups. (The rise of Crown who was once a "Bottom feeder", and BD 2005 who was dropped, and Cadets 2004/06). Another was that some corps can do anything they want and still land in the top 3. What do you guys think of the scenario?

He will allow it, but on his terms. He has different arrangements available through JW Pepper and other similar outlets. Its just VERY controlled. When I was in the US Marine Drum and Bugle Corps, he gave permissions for us to arrange and perform ("Summon The Heroes" and "Were Lookin' Good"- I did the percussion arrangements).

Hasnt it always been that way? You imply that a visual caption head has to be a brass player. Brass people dont know the mechanics of moving with a drum or guard equipment, but many successful captions heads still somehow did it. The caption heads have always relied on the instructional staff to make sure the technique is followed.

NO!!! I am grateful that the days of copping out and playing the same thing in consecutive years are gone! I loved some of those shows back then, but c'mon! That is so weak. Corps that did that basically admit that they dont want to put in any effort and regurgitate the same ole stuff. Empire State of Mind was one of the most memorable and special moments I have ever witnessed. I dont want them trying to one-up themselves on that. It was a wonderful moment in time, leave it alone!

HECK YEAH!!!!!

Only the Bucs can say goodbye to this much talent and experience and yet, be ever better off the next day! I cannot WAIT to see what these guys come up with! As a percussionist, I am especially excited!

I guess its just because they arent as good as you. no standards!

Thank you for the reply! I should clarify, in writing my post, I was speaking in terms of show design, and educational philosophy. Not so much in terms of business, finances or logistics. All the best! Tony