onceuponatime

Nice thought Kevin. Actually The Cadets refer to deceased members as Cadets Eternal. You can access the list of deceased Cadets (the names we have received to date) at www.theholynamecadets.org 83 years is a long, long time.

You may very well be right. I have no idea how many alumni share my viewpoint, or how many share yours, or how many just don't care. I will tell you one thing for sure though. George doesn't listen to anyone, least of all me. He marches to his own drummer. I never said that he does not feel an attachment to the corps. I know he does. He's a great teacher, especially with young people in the age range of the current Cadets. There is a history night during spring camp every year conducted by a fellow alumnus, Scotty McGarry. He does a great job, and as you mentioned, the kids love hearing about and seeing the corps of the past. I have never heard of an initiation night, until you just mentioned it. From that point on I guess we part ways. You have your viewpoint and I have mine. After 83 years of history and thousands of alumni there are probably more differing viewpoints than we could absorb. FYI, I have never stopped supporting our marching Cadets. I respond to their "Fund-Me" pleas as much as I'm able, and I send boxes of supplies to individual Cadets who request them during their tour. My strong support for our major traditions and our time-honored uniforms has nothing to do with me personally. It's all about the kids...it always has been. I don't want them to be denied the opportunity to enjoy everything that we enjoyed as Cadets, including the adoration of the fans and our fellow competitors; not always because of our performance, but always simply because we were who we were and what we represented.

Maybe our alumni need to put out a small pamplet explaining Cadet traditions, the history of how they started, and why they are still practiced. I doubt if it would change any minds, but at least it will help them to understand better what we do and why we do it. If nothing else it would give spectators a souvenir to take home with them, and some of them might even read it. I'm not blind to the fact that there are you posters on DCP and FB who seem to feel that traditions are just a remnant of the past that should be discarded. Young people customarily live within 24 hour spans of time, so the concept of holding onto and honoring your history and the people who made that history is foreign to them.We also have to deal with our corps director who never marched Cadets and lacks the attachment we all feel towards are corps; past, present, and future, and to each other. I am expecting a mass cleansing of our traditions next year because George is determined that he is going to move the corps into the future, without realizing that our past could be a unique show component, combined with new ideas. Well, sorry to keep you up. Once I start on this topic it just pours out.

Dave Shaw No, I'm not an official Cadets representative on DCP or anywhere else... just a long-term alumnus. Your original sentence in response to my post was, I guess, your feelings on the topic. I've read a lot of your posts this summer, and they were very intelligent. That's why I find that initial sentence of yours on this particular post to be out of character for you, and for me, just disappointing. Regarding what rumors are floating around relative to The Cadets, Im sure George will make any announcements necessary at the right time to the right audience. At the moment I don't know any more than you do.

This is not directed at you Capybara, although I'm mystified why so many posters really seem to feel that this is a topic worthy of discussion. The impression I get reading these many related posts is that the way The Cadets conduct themselves on retreat is an affront to other corps by denying The Cadets the opportunity to mingle and socialize on-the-field, and might conceivably affect their recruiting efforts at some point in the future. While I do not challenge the sincerity of the posters who have added their opinions on this topic, I have to admit that my reaction to it is why any of you care how The Cadets care to conduct themselves during formal retreats? Obviously not too many of you have ever observed the socializing that goes on in the tunnel once the corps leave the field. I can assure you that there is a lot of inter-corps hugging, conversations, taking photos of mixed groups of different corps. In other words there is a heck of lot of socializing going on, and The Cadets are right in the middle of it. They are formal in situations where formality is called for, and totally loose and relaxed with their many friends (and new friends) from other corps. Furthermore there are also inter-corps mixes on-the-road when the situation permits. Corps mix and match meals from other corps. I recall in-depth social exchanges, both planned and unplanned, between The Blue Coats, The Cavaliers, The Blue Devils, and others. So you can put to bed all your concerns that The Cadets traditions are an obstacle to complete immersion in the drum corps social scene. They are not. And, as far as recruiting goes, you would be amazed how many young people choose The Cadets solely because of their history, their traditions, the aura that surrounds the second oldest continuously active corps in America (Racine Scouts are first). They might be attracted by the uniforms, the evident pride of the corps members, the work ethic, the general knowledge that you learn a lot more life-lessons with The Cadets than anywhere else. I could go on, but I think you probably get the idea. The Cadets appreciate the concerns of some of the posters on DCP regarding the "differences" that are emblematic of The Cadets from other corps, and the possible long-term effect of those differences, but we assure you that you have no reason for concern, either now, or down the road.

Do I understand you correctly? "If The Cadets choose to do their own thing on retreat out of respect for the other corps, then the staff, members, and supporters had better be prepared for criticism that follows?" Did you really mean to say that? Would you like to elaborate on what you said so that others, like myself, do not view your comment as totally ridiculous?

I'm sure your post was made with the best of intentions, but you have your facts regarding The Cadets' uniforms a bit confused. The uniforms were selected by a committee consisting of Cadets, Cadet Alumni of the period (3 years) and Adult staff. They decided on a West Point style uniform. One of the adult leaders at the time was a Garfield policeman, who may or may not have had connections at West Point. A letter was sent to West Point requesting permission to duplicate their uniforms, in a different color combination; a request that was generously granted. The maroon, gold, and white colors were the colors of Holy Name Church, so that's why those colors were chosen. I doubt if anyone expected the spectacular color impact that resulted. The Cadets also adopted The West Point Code of Conduct and and a modified version of West Points' Disciplinary Code. The uniforms were first worn at the 1939 World Fair. At a parade in New York City in which both the Holy Name Cadets and a contingent of West Point Cadets participated, we were presented with two officer sabres for our Color Guard Captains to carry. All these various elements, plus our close relationship with The American Legion (a huge organization at that time) cemented our early military identity. It should also probably be noted that during that era drum corps competitions consisted of basic military drill maneuvers. We were very proud of our military identification and affiliation, and a number of Cadet traditions emerged during that period as well. We are also very proud that a significant number of Holy Name Cadets eventually wound up at The Military Academy at West Point, The Naval Academy, The Air Force Academy (which came into the picture later) and several other prestigious military academies. You are correct in noting that The Church played a significant role in the early Holy Name Cadets. I joined The Cadets in 1950. I was not Catholic, but I was never asked about my religion. There were at least two jewish boys in the corps that I remember, as well as a number of boys of other religions. Our founder, John Baumfalk, attended a Dutch Reformed Church around the corner from Holy Name. Virtually all corps in New Jersey at that time were sponsored by Catholic Churches. The Holy Name Cadets, however, were the most military-oriented corps, and also the most successful competitively (not implying that our competitors from New Jersey, New York, Pennsylvania, and Massachusetts were not also very successful competitively). The musical focus of drum corps began to evolve from marches to other types of music around the mid 1950s. Holy Name adapted much more slowly to this change than some of our most serious competitors. Drills also began to change during that period from strictly military to visual productions more complimentary to the music that was being performed. I do not, however, recall any of our most serious traditions undergoing change. We were still an all-male corps and off the field at least very military oriented. Now, 83 years later, the traditions that remain are products of those early all-male years. Over the years, of course, and with the addition of female Cadets, traditions sometimes changed to reflect the changing makeup of the corps. The Cadet uniforms, however, remained unchanged throughout all those years. The were respected by the Cadets who wore them in more recent years, and viewed by others as the unchangeable branded symbol of 83 years of Cadet and drum corps History. Even now, if most people would be asked to name the enduring symbol of drum corps, The Cadet uniforms would probably come to mind. So, all the preceding is how The Cadets became who and what they are. To the young posters whose taste in drum corps favor a different approach, it is my observation that they neither know much or care much about drum corps history. Is it important to chose one approach to the exclusion of another? I personally feel that to do so would diminish the appeal of our very unique activity. We have to keep in mind that whatever the flavor of the month might be now, it will, far sooner than you probably expect, be something else tomorrow. Hopefully our activity has grown enough to incorporate any style of performance that has, does, or will exist, before you have the time to say: traditions and history are pointless, your Flavor of the month might very well be yesterday's news.

I don't know whether this will contribute to your understanding or not. George explains it to The Cadets in this manner: 1. If you win you stand there, out of respect for the corps who didn't win and are dealing with their own disappointment. 2. If you don't win you stand there, out of respect for the corps who did win. 3. The Cadets leave the field immediately when the "clear the field" instruction is given. This is to allow the winning corps "their moment as champions." As the announcer always states, XXXXXX the field is yours. This is a long-standing Cadet tradition, and honestly, I think that anyone who criticizes it must be totally insensitive to manners and a degree of respect seldom viewed anymore. This is not to suggest that corps who choose to conduct themselves differently are not showing respect in a different manner. We all do things in our own way.

Very nice of George to remember to include the National American Legion Titles The Cadets won. The total is correct, but there are a few minor corrections on the years: 1940 1948 1949 1950 1953 1957 1960 1961 1962 1964

No big deal, but the "No More War" show was 1972. The Cadets' 1971 show was "America the Brave, 1776." No big deal but The Cadets' "No More War" show was 1972. 1971 was "America the Brave - 1776." Just to clarify: 1971 was The Cadets' 1971 show, "America the Brave - 1776." The "No More War" show was 1972.

I am aware that most of the posters on DCP are primarily focused on current shows, trends, results, etc. If you're a Cadet Alumnus you are probably focused not only on the present, but also on the 80 years that have gone before. If you haven't seen the on-line history book, this might give you a little insight into what it means to be a Cadet. Make sure you have your speakers on if you decide to check it out. www.theholynamecadets.net

To Stu (previous post): Thank you for the cogent explanation of the thinking of a Cadets' Alumnus on the topic being discussed. You were right on target with every point you made. Yes, the uniform is a very important to The Cadets' mystique. Eighty years of unifying thousands of different Cadets, make all who have worn the maroon and gold very sensitive to what it represents. One single season, one great show, one great corps will be honored and remembered until a new season begins; but The Cadets' unique identity, tied very closely to their uniform, will endure, as it has over eight decades. The corps-members' relationship to their history and singular character should not and cannot be altered for any reason whatsoever. The corps and the uniform endure, but competitive accomplishments in any single season fade into history. As the final verse of The Cadets' Hymn, The Holy Name Song, promises: "For Holy Name Shall Always Be --- Amen."

@BlackStar- regarding corps placement averages, maybe I misread the point of your list, but don't forget that prior to 1972 the "generally recognized" national championships were the VFW and the American Legion. Cadets won Legion in 1940-48-49-50-53-57-60-61-62-64; plus, I believe, one VFW title. The Cavaliers and Blessed Sacrament also were extremely successful during those years. If your intent was not to include those years in your list, I apologize for my misunderstanding.

George disrespectful to other corps? Anyone who believes that is about as far from the truth as you can get. This was posted by George Hopkins on JULY 19 from New Katy, Texas. If you believe for even a second that George and The Cadets don't respect our competitors, even our closest competitors; read this! "Gotta be impressed by the Bluecoats . Great work by the kids and staff in rising past judges opinions It's a great lesson for us all . There is no definitive winner in this game. There are simply scores based on the collective views of the judges for the evening. These judges do their best to rank and rate. They use their experience and skills to choose based on their perceptions. It's a blast of a game - and we all want to win but the journey is where the real work is done. . As I tell the Cadets - our corps has won world championships by a tenth of a point - it can easily have gone the other way That said, it is not wise I would offer, to allow a group of 8 or so people whom we barely know to define success. You would do that nowhere else in your life and we all need to not allow such judgement to affect our kids or ourselves in this world . Competing is a grand lesson but it needs to be held in context. Again, judges are working at the highest level to make the CALL. But is there a RIGHT call ??? When we are on top we would like to think so When we are chasing the top, we of course are looking for a different result. That's why we use different judges for different people have different perspectives than each other. AND YES, when a judges does not particularly love what you and your group bring to the field, it can be a tough pill to swallow. No right .. no wrong ... but still a tough pill to swallow. I judge in the Fall .. its a tough gig !!! No doubt !!! Dr Bernard Baggs, the great sage of drum corps for many decades , once told me that rules congresses, judges sheets and all of that was a waste of time and money because we were judging something that could not be judged. I was a young director and I reveled in the debate and the search for the RIGHT system. Today , well , I too agree that there is no right system. Just ---- a system. And it will change and we will grow but no matter what we do - there will always be simply the results of The Night. Never will there be the ultimate victor for as Dr Baggs explained to me - drum corps is about children and art and in that endeavor there are no losers To close this diatribe .... We are not for profit organizations not because we play instruments and march but because we affect the future of young people's lives . We do need fans and supporters no doubt ; such is our operational model. And yes indeed the kids love a standing ovation and we love alumni and t shirt sales and filled stadiums and passion driven fans. Heck - our collective goal is to bring you to your feet and bring tears to your eyes. Every corps is doing their very best to be as entertaining as possible. Every corps ! But at the end of the day - what matters is each young man and woman on that field . Our success is determined years from now as today's performers blossom to be tomorrow's teachers and leaders. What we do today does create a legacy for decades to follow, and that legacy is not based on placement . It's hard to remember in a stadium of 10000 fans or in a forum or other discussion board but indeed , because of the inherent work ethic involved in our methods, we can change lives. We do change lives. We in leadership are blessed to have the opportunity we woke to this morning and every morning . We who teach must remember we hold in our hands the hearts and souls of thousands of awesome young people. And make no mistake , these kids are the top 5 percent of the kids in the world. Bus sleep - 10 hour rehearsals - a quest for perfection when such a result is impossible . It's amazing what they do and what we all do Utterly amazing !!!!! So congratulations Bluecoats. You turned your back on the opinion of the evening and you went out and created new opinions . Which is correct ? Who knows? But why I say congratulations is for what is clearly a corps built on persistence and determination . And you have to love that - competition or no competition Now - we all have to get back to work . We have a journey to continue and by the way don't get too good Bluecoats remember we all want those 8 people to tell the world we are the best. To all corps. - be fabulous - enjoy the day and this weather and tonight .... Be the best version of your corps that you possibly can be . After all, that's all you CAN do."

The voice you hear when The Cadets' narrator is lip synching is his own recorded voice. Not sure why it's being done this way, except possibly consistency under varying stadium and weather conditions. I can see how heavy winds might also require a recording.

You're right on target Charlie 1223.

The Cadets will have their 80th anniversary in 2014. In view of the fact that no Cadet Alumnus marched in every single decade, it's quite conceivable that certain traditions and terms such as "prayer block" would have been used by Cadets in some years and not in others. It follows, therefore, that the term might be familiar to some Cadets, but not necessarily to all. It was not used when I marched, but I have heard it used many, many times over the years. It has in fact been used for a sufficient number of years for it to have become used quite often by The Cadets of the "modern" era. As Mike Davis noted, in the early years The Cadets, like most other corps, entered the field in one long single file. That was to facilitate entry in the days when you began your show on a starting line. When the Cadets began emerging onto the field in a block following elimination of the "starting line, the single file entry pretty much faded away. Since that time I have often heard the newer entry formation referred to as the prayer block. They do not always enter the field in the block formation depending pretty much on program design, so the term may or may not apply in any given year. I am, quite honestly, a little bemused that any of this is of any importance whatsoever. The OP opened this discussion with a question regarding the reason behind The Cadets' right foot step-off. How the discussion veered off course into a discussion of who is and who is not familiar with the term "prayer block," seems pretty far from the intent of the OP.

The Cadets have sung The Holy Name Hymn continuously since 1937. It is sung at one tempo just prior to entering the field for competition, and a second entirely different tempo for moments of great import in Cadet History, Cadet Funerals, and generally speaking whenever Cadet Alumni and/or marching Cadets gather for a special occasion. It is considered to be one of the strongest connections between Cadets of different generations. You will seldom hear O Holy Name being sung, without seeing a lot of tears running down the faces of those singing it. It is a very, very powerful reaffirmation of Cadet continuity, and our belief in Cadet history, heritage, and values.

@NR_Ohiobando - You certainly deserve plaudits for consistency. Judging by your posts. Apparently whatever has happened in our world in your viewpoint has probably been The Cadet's fault. You must have a degree of insight that enables you to see their hand at work doing nefarious and outrageous things. Double points because the expression on your face in your profile pictures lines up exactly with the unending negative thoughts about The Cadets you present. Now me, I'm a Cadet homer. I tend to focus on the one or two good things they must have done during their eighty year history of primarily being the epitome of pure evil. Of course there' always the possibility that they are the great evil force you present them to be. I'm sure you have very strong justification for your exceptionally viral dislike of one of our most honored corps...don't you?

The Palomino is where you'll find all Cadets of all ages in Indy during finals week. The official party is Friday afternoon, but as per a phone call I received today there are Cadet Alumni there already (all are welcome, corps affiliation doesn't matter). Great place, managed by a Bluecoat alumn, and he goes all out to welcome The Cadet crowd every year. Great bar and excellent restaurant, both with reasonable prices.

"disgrace?" You must have been a very unusual 17 year old with such deep insight. Apparently though you missed the vision of the Virgin that appeared to The Cadets during their concert, "The Angels Sing." The results were a pretty foregone conclusion after that.

From Michael Boo .. on line ... > George Hopkins 8:31 Michael Boo: The Cadets' “Side By Side” features all music by Samuel Barber. “Symphony No. 1” “Adagio for Strings” “Medea’s Dance of Vengeance” 8:31 Comment From Caleb Considering That the Cadets show last year wanted me to Put up my Christmas Tree and Bake gingerbread men. I wonder how there show will make me feel this season? 8:32 Michael Boo: Is the oven still warm? 8:33 Michael Boo: This intro of "Adagio" is pure magic. Half the corps on one side facing front and the other half on the other side facing back. 8:34 Comment From Howard Ok so the Adagio is a close second to the Nimrod. 8:35 Michael Boo: This corps has had the top scores at a couple major shows against the top. Yet they aren't mentioned as much as a couple other corps. That may change tonight. 8:36 Michael Boo: Double tonguing ON tonight. 8:36 DCI Live Blog@DCI_Live@TheCadets perform at the @DCI Southwestern Championship in San Antonio. #‎DCI13 pic.twitter.com/k7a4AwAvTR 8:36 Comment From the_rberry Between the way the Cadets move the blocks and the way the colors on the blocks change, this is another design team that really *gets* the notion of layers. (Which are important on the judging sheets.) 8:36 Michael Boo: [dreamscapes in four parts with towers] 8:37 Michael Boo: I do wish the towers had better interval spacing. 8:38 Comment From John Weldy Cadets have an extremely clean sound tonight. MUCH better than last week. Sounds like they spend time focusing on opening it up. 8:38 Michael Boo: Oh, baby. 8:38 Comment From Howard The way they weave the Adagio is amazing! 8:38 Michael Boo: There are no weaknesses here, including pulling the audience in. 8:39 Michael Boo: Ooooo, some of those quick crescendoes during big chords in the low brass. Wow. 8:39 Comment From the_rberry I think the towers were designed for the specific "turf" at LOS. There was a podcast with their designer where this was discussed. 8:39 Comment From Stephen I'm convinced this drumline is just not from this planet. 8:41 Michael Boo: I am such a sucker for the elegiac theme from Barber's "Symphony No. 1." 8:41 Comment From the_rberry The breath control this soloist has just gives me chills (and not just on this solo!!) 8:41 Comment From Caleb I wish the Color guard used a thicker pole or a flag here its hard to see the pole :( 8:41 Michael Boo: It's very easy to see live. 8:41 Comment From Jayson Brinkler Cadets have made 10 changes to their show since thursday and is now starting to click into place. That drumline is smoking! 8:42 Michael Boo: I must go out and buy something orange. Underwear...anything. 8:42 Comment From Stephen This show is striking a better chord with me tonight. I think I stopped trying to make sense of it and just started enjoying the music. And boy is the music enjoyable. 8:43 Comment From Howard Thanks for that visual image mike 8:43 Michael Boo: That's why I'm here. :) 8:43 Michael Boo: I'm sitting here shaking my head because I'm having trouble believing what I'm seeing, which is pure magnificence. 8:44 Comment From Howard Guess what's back? Adagio 8:44 Comment From John Weldy Lets all go buy orange underwear in honor of Mike Boo. 8:44 Michael Boo: I can think of worse ways to honor me. 8:45 Comment From Ed love the side by side symmetry. looks effortless! 8:45 Comment From Stephen I just heard a triplet roll in the snare line that nearly made me scream out loud. Yikes is this show really really strong. 8:45 Comment From Caleb My Mouth is Drooling with the AMAZINGNESS! 8:45 Michael Boo: What an incredible way to end the show! I am so flabbergasted tonight. 8:45 Comment From John Weldy I think we have a new nominee for most improved since last week. Wow. 8:46 Michael Boo: I won't counter that. 8:46 Michael Boo: Uh...wow. 8:46 Comment From Caleb They need to build a George Hopkins Statue just for this show. 8:47 Michael Boo: One's being crafted, I just can't say where. 8:47 Comment From Jayson Brinkler wow, that may well have been the performance of the night!! 8:47 Comment From Ed How many weeks til Indy? These corps are BRINGING IT! 8:47 Comment From Guest Quick someone make four colored boxers for them to sell at the souvie stand! 8:47 Michael Boo: Boy, that orange underwear comment really struck a nerve. 8:48 Comment From Alan Mueller I really love Cadets show this year! Twitter / DCI_Live: @TheCadets perform at the @DCI ... twitter.com Instantly connect to what's most important to you. Follow your friends, experts, favourite celebrities, and breaking news. Like · · Share Margee Estelle Gearhart and 10 others like this. Twitter / DCI_Live: @TheCadets perform at the @DCI ... pic.twitter.com Instantly connect to what's most important to you. Follow your friends, experts, favourite celebrities, and breaking news.