roosevelt

It was a lie. nobody has scores

You would have played it too if it supported your argument, but it didn't.

That is the point. There are different ideas about what finished means. Listen, I am not behind any of the corps here. No horse in this race in regards to the TOC corps. What I am saying is, some corps do it differently. There are corps that get the whole show out there and can barely perform it in the beginning, but will eventually get it in the end. See Cavaliers 2010 There are corps that get the show out there and can perform it well, but the DESIGN of the show has fatal flaws that will catch up with them later on. See Crown 2010 There are corps that will only put out there what they feel is presentable to the public. See Blue Devils 2010. There are different philosophies to how it is done. I would prefer the one that works in the end.

No. I am not grasping at all. Some of those corps that stood still did have 10 minutes of show marching and playing. The issue is, they have 11 minutes of show.

Agreed. I don't think DCI will come up with a rule like that though for reasons I mentioned above. If they were to, it would only mean that the corps would find a different way to show that they were not done with the show. They would band-aid an ending in and then change it (ie learn the correct one) later.

You are assuming that those other corps are finished though. Being finished and appearing finished are two different things. Who else do you know for sure was finished?

You are going to pull the "what are these corps teaching kids about deadlines" routine? Oh please. There are multiple ways to look at this. You could look at the first show as the first draft of the paper / project and DCI finals as the last draft / final presentation. You could also look at this like the kid who races to finish the test and be the first to turn it in, but gets low grades. Corps get rewarded for being done. Corps get penalized for not being done. It is subjective, but so is everything in DCI. Last night I know for a fact that SCV definitely turned in their final project before it was ready. The put their whole show out there. Good for them. It wasn't good and the audience didn't like it. I would have preferred it if SCV would have either put out a little less show and learned how to play what they had out there well or if they would have put out less show and taken a little extra time to design it a little better. They didn't do that. They were done though and I am sure the audience enjoyed their 11 minutes of not playing together or marching well over the 10 minutes that BD and Cavaliers put out there that was presentable. I am sure the fan voting will bear that out.... oh wait.

Yet you want drum corps to do it like they did back in the day....

I don't assume what other people have as far as time and money. All I am saying is this is what happens in early season drum corps and it happens EVERY SINGLE YEAR! Also, if you think the rest of the corps out there are done. You are wrong. I am sure that there are other corps in the G8 that are not done. They just manufactured and ending / bandaided a stopping place in the show. I know for certain that other corps that are Non-G8 corps are planning on doing the same thing, even though they have their first show later. I just googled "movie release" date postponed and got over 6 million hits. I then googled "DVD release" date postponed and got over 4 million hits. This still tells me things sometimes take longer to produce than expected. I could care less if it is 250 days or 150 days, or 2000 days. It takes as long as it takes to make a great product and for an activity that is a competitive one like DCI, they are designing for AUGUST. That is what you clearly do not understand. They do not give medals out for high June. The do not give an award for best start of the 2011 season. It is a marathon, not a sprint. I can't begin to tell you about how many corps have kicked everyone's butt early season and ended up fading hard at the end. I can also list numerous examples of corps who struggled out of the gate and ended up being the fan favorite, or the champion, or both in August. Honestly, I don't really want every corps to be complete in June. If they are then great, but if they aren't then I generally go into "wait and see" mode. I want them to be great in August. I want them to do something new, exciting, and innovative. I want them to push the activity forward, but if they are going to do so, they may need time to experiment with drill, staging, and god knows what else. They don't always get it right the first time. People generally agree that Spartacus in 2008 was one of the greatest / most fan friendly shows of recent times. They were not complete when they came out. They had to rewrite the drill for parts of the show numerous times. They kept sending things back and messing with it until they got it right. In the end it worked and everyone loved them and people on here foam at the mouth about how great and how perfect that show was. Mind you they only beat BD once that season. Finally, I don't think the audience cared that much about the corps not being done. Would they have preferred it? Of course. But I don't think they were outraged and here is why: The only corps that I know for sure that was done at the show last night was SCV and by the looks of them, they are going to finish last on the judges sheets and last in the FAN VOTE. The only corps that we know for sure were not done were BD and Cavaliers and by the looks of it, they will be top two. Cavaliers stood there for the last minute and STILL WON THE FAN VOTE. So, maybe they knew what they were doing after all.

Well, by this statement you are assuming that the shows of the higher ranking corps are equal to those of the lower placing corps. But, they aren't. The are *generally* more difficult to perform and more complex from a design / layering standpoint. 8 minutes of show for one corps is not the same as 8 minutes of show as another corps. One of the corps that stood still the last minute of the show last night was The Cavaliers. I also heard that they have well over 215 pages already out there, which was probably more than anyone else who may have been completed. So, their 10 minutes of show (on the move) might be more drill and just more show than that of a corps that had 11 minutes. I just don't understand folks getting all crazy about people not being done. I have been pretty actively involved in the activity for a few decades now and this is a normal occurrence.

It does effect them the same way (well mostly; corps use different instrument makers, so there may be some SLIGHT deviations). The difference is how they (the staff and the members) deal with the heat / pitch changes. Also, corps that go on earlier generally have hotter weather while corps that go on later have more optimal conditions.

When it gets hot, keyboard instruments expand and the pitch goes down. However, when it gets how for brass instruments the walls of the horns get thicker and the instrument becomes shorter, making the pitch higher. So, when it gets hot or cold the pit goes one way and the brass go another. When it is really extreme weather, they get so far apart that you can't get the horns pulled out far enough to make it down to the pit.... that is how that happens.

Incorrect. That is how 1997 started. 1998 they were strong out of the gates. In 97 they were awful early season, but finished 3rd.

This is incorrect. You do not have the scores, nobody on here does.

It sounds like you have it so figured out. I think some corps needs your assistance to help them get their act together since you are clearly ona different plane than the rest of these idiot managers, instructors, and designers of these low rent drum corps. Man, I can't wait to see what lucky corps gets your help, oh wise one. Oh please. It is early season drum corps. You have a choice. You can come to a later show and see the whole thing cleaned, complete, and polished, or you can come to a show when it is most convenient for you and run the risk of it not. It has been like this for decades. People that went to the show last night either knew that, should have known that, or didn't care. Interesting. If a producer of a movie doesn't feel like the movie is going to be ready, do you know what he does? He delays the opening of the movie. In drum corps you can't delay when the first show is but you can delay when parts of YOUR show are put out there. Remember when Crown came out on fire last year and spanked everyone they saw for the first month of the season? The were numerous quotes on here that were like this: "This is a CHAMPIONSHIP caliber show RIGHT NOW!!!".... at the end of the season: 4th.

This is a contradiction in and of itself. The judges in fact are trained to evaluate what is on the field in DCI. Just like any other judging circuit. They are not expected to ignore that the show is incomplete, just to judge what is out there. So, if a corps stands still and plays the last 30 seconds of their show they will get dinged in music & visual effect BIG TIME along with pretty much every other caption to a lesser degree. I have taught corps (decades ago BTW) who stood still the last minute (or more) and played the show and we got dinged on the tapes, on the sheets, and in critique. I remember hearing phrases exactly like this: "We liked you guys tonight, but you stood still there at the end, and the number will reflect that on the sheets. Finish the show, and that goes up..." Those are the EXACT words that I heard on more than one occasion in my time as an instructor and some of those same judges were judging the show last night and I can guarantee you they said the same thing to some of the corps then. As for the people that didn't stand there for the last minute of the show, do you guys think they were done? If so, you are kidding yourself. NONE of them are done. If they are, they are likely in trouble. EVERY corps out there has a new ending coming later or the actual ending coming later. Most corps manufacture an ending for the first half of the season so they can get some feedback from the judges and the audience about what is working and then give them some more of that at the end. Just to think back to last year: I remember the fans going crazy about SC not being done early season. Just going insane on them and one of the directives from their BOD was that they have the complete product on the field at te first show.... look at the reviews of the show from last night and tell me how that is working out for them.

What? You are seriously telling me that the corps now have the same level of difficulty that they did twenty years ago? No way. Sorry. You are completely diluted. I marched BITD (Late 80's, early 90's). The shows then were NOTHING like the shows today. Not even close. Not from a physical demand standpoint, not from the number of charts, not from a harmonic standpoint, and not from an environmental demand standpoint. Not even close. I taught up until the early part of the 2000's and I can tell you that the shows now were closer in physical and musical demand to what they are now, but the complexity in the show designs now is higher / more intricate, and that takes more time to flesh out.

Don't normally do predictions, but what the heck: 1. BD - Clean for the first show, as usual. 2. Cavaliers - Better than they usually are at the first show. 3. Bluecoats - Solid corps and show, could be higher. 4. Crown - Fun Show. Dirty, but nobody will care. 5. Cadets - Not as good as many people are saying. 6. Bluestars - They are going to be very good. 6th is a very realistic goal IMO. 7. Regiment - Still some things to work out. Horns are not as good, Drums are not as good, visual is improved. 8. SCV - Great drumline, bad hornline = 8th place out of 8.

This is all very interesting, but there are certain things that you are missing. #1 is that The Cavaliers finished ahead of the bluecoats at the end of the season. Nobody cares how many times you beat someone in June or July, it is all about where you are in August. #2 you mentioned the bluecoats are retaining most or all of their staff, but so is everyone else with the exception of phantom and SCV. I do think you are right or close to being right at least (which is all you can do in a pre-season prediction thread). Bluecoats are definitely in a good place to win drums. I think the cavaliers have an equal shot to do the same and it sounds like BD is going to have a very good line this year as well. I do think folks are a little quick to jump on the SCV bandwagon. With the percussion staff being the new thing over at SCV it is going to take some time to adjust. I mean, how long was Rennick at Regiment before he won his first drum title? 5years maybe? It wasn't like he just figured out how to write or teach all of the sudden. He took time to build it. SCV will take time too. I am sure the drumline (and pit) will be very very good this year, but full corps I hear is struggling, and that can be hard to overcome for a caption award.

The show was not the problem in 2009. It was how it was played.

I disagree completely. I think The Troopers have an excellent shot at beating BK. Not saying that they will, but they sure could. Lots of reasons that they could and plenty of reasons that they won't. I will guarantee you that The Troopers will be better than last year. Despite the recent events with the bus crash, there are lots of things going very well with the corps in regards to the staff, the membership, and the design. Them changing where they rehearse for pre-tour had to help more than anything else. Conversely, I do not know much about Blue Knights this year except that they are playing Holst suites on the field. I just don't see it, so the jury is still out for me when it comes to them. We will all know before long though...

There really weren't any injuries. Just some bumps and bruises. The worst of it was one kid broke their pinky finger and another needed stitches. The corps is moving along fine, learning drill, and getting ready for the first show.

Yeah not so much. Those guys had double G's with plenty of power. They were mic'd due to staging (the whole drum corps was a few steps behind them playing full out).

If you saw what they were being asked to do, I think you would feel differently.

I have had the same exact experience with a number of corps that I have been involved with.