Chat_Capone

yeah, i know, i was referrring to the prior season...but in 81, float marched a monster drumline, that was absolutely the cleaniest line on the field, no question.

i cant believe jeff played favourites against his old foes, the devs. what was he thinking putting cavies percussion ahead of blue devils...no one else see's that...i would even put crown and bluecoats ahead of cavie's percussion. typical personal gettting in the way, if you ask me...

They clearly outperformed a much more progressive, difficult and interesting program than ANY corps that year and the few following. What a presentation! Simply brilliant. as to this thread...this is most likely one of the most discussed drum corp shows ever...I know from the percussion standpoint, it is regarded as a one-off unique and sterling book/ performance, hence why they won percussion almost with perfect score (finals wasnt perfect...but pre-lims was!) The Star guard and visual package? no one had anything on them in show concept and design...i wasnt in the press box or field evaluating...so that tenth of a point that they needed is a mystery to me...I still get the feeling, it was manipulated. Cadets were much flatter, not sloppy, but ditier...maybe if they had a few more weeks with their show. Then again, their show wasnt that original or clever...sort of rehashed "cadet" ideas with new direction in music/ arranger.

interesting...most people's memory of a past event is beheld by their own personal experience(s). Perhaps you had something else that happend to you in 1990 that might have influenced your overall perception. Perhaps corps wasnt flat, but something else might have flattened it for you.

the following placement. 1. Blue Devils 2. Phantom Regiment 3. Carolina Crown 4. Cadets 5. Cavaliers 6. Bluecoats 7. SCV ... the rest..who cares.

Im not an expert in this, but that could be debated....Sal Salas, Scott Chandler's work with Spirit of Atlanta could be said to birthed the new wave and direction of guards....however, Karl Lowe is incredibly gifted, talented and creative...I have had the pleasure of working on staff with him on multiple occasions.

How about one of the biggest drumlines of all time (think it holds the record in DCI) 1981 Spirit: 12 snares 7 tenors 7 basses 8 cymbals 4 keyboards 1 timp 1 aux. although that was considered a tragic season due to the loss of Jim Ott, that line executed beyond belief...first time ever that basses and snares doubled passages. tom float influenced the activity not only with his cleaning techniques, but his writing.

He marched under Tom Float at UNT...which was and perhaps still the one of the most impressive drumlines...dci-marching band-wgi...ever! Float asked this guy to come and march countless times...Paul could have written his own ticket. I dont know the real reasons why, but they are extremely personal why he wasnt able to march corps during those seasons. I knew this dude was going somewhere when he had his first chance to completely write the show for 1995 VK...yeah, they were dirty, but what they played, how they grooved, how they executed...WOW....although the corps didnt make top 12, the line made it well within. His work with Crown really molded one area of the corps that needed the most work at that time.

In all due respect to Sanford and his tremendous influence on the contemporary marching percussion ensemble, he didnt introduce the multiple-pitched bass drums....it was Muchachos back in the late 60's...they also introduced clustered toms, timbales and congas that eventually led into "timp toms/ tenors/ quads, etc."

Robert W Smith is a genius....he could actually "think" in chordal structures. 1985 was incredible as well...too bad the trends in drill, percussion, visual werent there at the time to take full advantage of Smith's brilliant work. 1988 Suncoast was seen by many, judges, corps staff, etc. as groundbreaking...especially after that horror of a show they put on the field the year prior (My Fair Lady - total crap) I think if Al Murray would have been there in 1988, they could have scored higher, as the percussion scores kept them behind a bit. Suncoast had some amateur percussion staff in 87 - 89, they lost all their competent ones when Kim Lloyd took back over as director and in a cut off the nose to spite his face, fired them all. Tom Float stayed bi-partisan, but used to march with Murray in Anaheim and taught together at Oakland (Murray is a Canuck) and really felt he had been shafted after fielding such a awesome drumline in 86. Murray had last laugh, he is currently vice president of Dynasty.

1990 has its place....a lot of good shows and filling the epitome of this activity: Cadets doing Bernstein...Classic. Crossmen, enjoying their 2nd year back in the top 12 after most of the 80's being out. Very cool show, not as good as 91, but still a jiving and groovy show. Star of Indiana...OMG! incredible show...innovative, beautiful...perhaps the most difficult thing on the field that summer. SCV doing Carmen....great arrangements, fun show, fit well within the SCV scheme (not as good as 91's, but still on track) Cavaliers reviving bits of Gloria, more refined, better execution, better visual (brubaker?), better drumming, hornline still playing half and whole notes, but whatever, they did it well. VK doing the "hollywood" show, but really honoring DCI (music inspired by many corps like Bridgemen, SCV, Blue Devils, Cavies, 27, etc.) Fun show. Okay, Blue Devils was a bit dissapointing (really square and flat approach to the music - not their best)...but hey...it was a hell of a lot better show than 89...Spirit of Atlanta's Scott Chandler arrived on the scene and turned the guard around. Unfortunately it was Tom Float's last year, but the drumline certainly earned their keep, one of the most interesting drum solos. true, 1991 was a better year overall, but 89? no way...1989 was pretty flat...1988 was phenominal.

It doesnt look like Madison, although they finally have a decent percussion staff (former BD). But the corps staff is young and inexperienced...the show design is somewhat lame and status quo. Too bad, this corps used to be a major powerhouse.

Dont worry, I think Cavies have sucked royally since 2006. Its ashame that the real talent of their staff is gone now and they re-staffed with status quo.

you have to look at the total package...not focus on percussion (battery, most likely)... then again, its an opinion...I think crown's GE is way too high, judges thought so too...Crown is basically becoming the new Star.

lol...no one is suggesting that Crown could pass BD....perhaps if the season went to mid september, there is a chance...BD is on fire...innovative program, best GE marks they have gotten in years.

PR wont pass Crown this season. LOL. I think Crown will pass Cavies, easily. Cavies, again for the 3rd year in a row, is a dissapointment, regardless of placement.

interesting to see how so many were whining over "their favourite little corps"....lol...but after all was said and done....BD more than took honors...Crown is the surprise this year....I predict they will pass cavies in the next weeks, like PR will most likely do as well. In the end, Cavies will be lucky this year to get 4th. The last few years, they have gotten nothing but gifts. It isnt the same Corps as the early 2000's, that is for sure. I miss that cavaliers.

the perfect box would be having 2 elements of 4, the other 2 elements of 3....wouldnt it? 4² makes a rectangle. or the perfect box would be the hot new colorguard instructor

I agree: PR tunes the drums very well....I noticed that Paul Rennick always prefers a similar tuning schematic to enhance his writing style, no matter what corps he is working with. Paul, another Tom Float protege, tunes like Float used to tune them...mid range, meaty to fufill the amount of notes and clarity of each voice intertwining to make one "voicing" out the entire battery elements. I like it...its pleasing to the ear and nice to hear bottom basses being "kick" basses again... Btw TastyWaves, who says you cant mix and match? If you arent tied into any particular sponsor, go for it....for example, if you had a harley...would you only get a harley jacket, harley gloves, harley boots, harley cap, etc.? or would you get an Outfitters cap, Abercrombie shirt, etc. you get the point? I remember Ludwig well...although shell, parts, quality, etc were big deficiencies in the past, the Ludwig tenors were some of the best sounding ever....I remember by the end of the 80's Spirit was still the only one using Ludwig in the top 12 and their tenors were always perfect projection (it didnt hurt that they were generally regarded as the best tenor line at that time) ha ha, Tom Float always mix and matched....when the line first went to Yamaha in 1986...Float hated the huge rims, so he used the Ludwig Die cast rims off the challengers.... in 89, he used this new "freefloating" concept only produced by Premier at the time...and got some Yamaha stickers to put down the front of the drum...of course when you are Tom Float, you can get away with anything. He was the only guy that could even make an aggressive gang member go have a cup of coffee with him... hey, if it sounds good....go for it.... yamaha snares, dynasty tenors, pearl or yammy basses ....and the freedom to pick and choose between any and all concert keyboard equipment and timpani....

hear hear! I agree with you totally. Corps need an innovation yet again in the percussion department. Yes, it is impressive to see big lines play clean and execute well...but in today's arena, EVERYONE plays with similar and solid execution...cleanliness varies, however, similar....(e.g., a 20th place corps or div2 and 3 drumline could easily place within the top 6 of 1982).... let's face it, percussionist and drummers overall, not just in the marching idiom, have gotten a lot better....a lot better, than say what was 20 years ago. I think it interesting that some of the big BOA marching bands, due to music, show design, playing arenas, etc. have chosen not to march tenors...or all tenors and no snares....or 6 snares and 6 basses....some of those lines are winning titles...so deviation isnt met with "if it aint broke" attitudes....just like in Corps. it is somewhat wasted that 10 good percussionist are basically repeated on the same instrument. However, a 10 man snareline is not the same as a snare drummer....totally different sound and approach....hence why you couldnt just mic the drum and have one....there is a sound quality that is achieved with multiple players....similar to having 24 sopranos (oh, okay trumpets) as opposed to a big band 6 or 7. I think BD's show this year is, yet again, innovative in the percussive arts and continually pushing the envelope.

as I predicted, their easy, unoriginal, reshashed show will catch up with them. Oddly, they arent executing or performing that show that well either. Of all captions that Cavies consistently take, it's GE....their brass and percussion, for past 3 years, have only hung on by a thread, but their GE made up for it...oh well, times change...make room for new blood: Carolina Crown.

ha ha ha...I never had that experience with a judge...in fact, the on-field judges used to look a bit concerned and worried that he was standing in front of one of the most winning drumlines in a corps known for unpredictable and fast drill...there were times, where we actually would call out to the judge in the show "check this out"...perform some amazing passage and later on the tape he would say "he he, thanks for the tip..nice!"

This is a difficult one: between Star, Suncoast and VK

I think what I really want to say, is that I find the championship series lack the projection Im looking for in voicings (how I arrange obviously affects this as well as a preferential)...however, when we used em at Star, they seem to fit the bill with Thom's writing...nothing overly meaty...like Cadets back in those days, where the voice was always lost in the bass drums/front. Although Ive done my most work with Yamahas, I do like the Pearls...however for tenors, nothing ever fit my fancy until the Dynasty's came along...nice balance between the two...too bad that product line has its drawbacks with snares/basses.

in my honest opinion, I have never been a fan of the Championships, they are way too tonally deep, no matter what tuning schematics used and during full ensemble playing, they always get lost -It's ashame too, because they really have a nice full body tone,...only when they are exposed does one here their beautiful tone.