ssgt94

Just wanted to add one small thing regarding the troll's comments, with particular regard to his arrogant attempt to inflate the importance of his comments by randomly dropping the names of staff members he either purports to know or recognize. Know to whom you are referring correctly when you make such accusations, it kind of implodes your credibility when you quote people either by the wrong name or supposed action. I know for certain that Pete Emmons, Todd Ryan, and John (not Jack) didn't do what you suggested. That kind of implies you're full of "insert expletive." Everyone can now feel comfortable discussing the OPs topic without the trolling commentary. Have a nice day.

Wait, I'm just a little bit confused. In regard to a previous post, if the Blue Devils are supposed to be the second coming, what decade would that be in reference to...the 70s, 80s, 90s, 00s, 10s? Given that the association is correct, we're taking an awful long time to get there...wherever there is. Just sayin'

In 1992, I believe we first took our jackets off at Ypsilanti, MI, about a week before finals. The show's name has stayed in my mind all of these years because the crowd's reaction was, well...they had no idea what to make of it. There was a small smattering of applause at the end, but a larger sense of WTH was that? For that first show, we simply just took off our jackets, since we were just beginning to work the kinks out of the process. I do remember working the timing of taking things off constantly, as it was all choreographed to the music of the intro.

I've just been informed by one of Crown's Brass Staff that BD was, in fact, booed. Whatever.

I would venture to say that what necessarily constitutes a very difficult show is a very subjective argument; that is, unless you can compare the musical scores of the various shows against one another. From the standpoint of an audience member, a well-trained ear can detect difficult technical passages, as opposed to half notes and whole notes. However, taken into account whether or not the members are running their butt's off while trying to inflect half notes in the upper register...you see my point, it's all in the eye of the beholder. I'm a horn guy, so I wouldn't dream of commenting on any drum parts, one way or the other. As for marching, again, that's a very subjective argument; is it "harder" to run you butt off for 11 minutes and play half notes, or stay still and play very technically-challenging runs? Since I've only seen the musical scores and drill sheets for two different corps (spread over 5 years), I only feel qualified to comment on their respective levels of difficulty. During the years in which I marched, the most challenging - notice I didn't use the word hardest - horn books that I encountered were 1993 and 1995. As I'm sure you all know, both books had some challenging technical parts which were played both at halts and while moving. However, if the performance of these shows appeared to be difficult to to the uninitiated, then we obviously weren't performing it very well. And, as Dave Carico used to say, no matter how cool it's supposed to be, if it doesn't sound good, who cares. Just my two cents.

It's legitimate. http://www.bluedevils.org/programs/a/2009/repertoire.php

I agree, in principle at least, with the OP in that if you do identify your past affiliations, there are individuals who, regardless, are going to associate your comments with your affiliations. A lot of people have made distinctions between linking comments and affiliations based upon your current status; e.g. member, staff member, alumni, etc. I would like to think that, in a perfect world, everyone is entitled to their opinion regardless of their affiliation; and you are personally responsible for such. If, for example, you are a paid staff member, executive director, etc., of an organization, then yes, your comments reflect highly upon that of the organization; your remarks are, essentially, official policy. And, if you are a current member, your comments will reflect - somewhat - upon the organization. However, since Corps are composed of large numbers of individuals, nowadays up to 150, one person's opinion can hardly be demonstrative of the entire membership. When I marched, there were at least a dozen smaller units within the Corps, all with different opinions on a vast number of subjects. Accordingly, it would be highly inaccurate to attribute a singular member's opinions with that of the entire Corps' membership, let alone as the Corps' official policy. As for alumni, they are adults with their own lives. Whether they support the Corps monetarily via donations, going to shows, cooking for picnics, etc., they are still just adults supporting their old Corps. Now, if these alumni are paid staff, that's a different issue, please see aforementioned remarks. In other words, their comments are their own...period. Personally, I'm a big supporter of my Corps, and I've been accused of being a honk several times, but not at the expense of other Corps, that would be irresponsible. Ultimately, I'm simply pointing out that, unless you're qualified to speak on behalf of your Corps, your comments are your own, and should be interpreted as such. I realize that doesn't always happen, but that's my opinion. You should post responsibly regardless, that would mitigate any inference issues. One last thought, I know that many people have opined concerning the nature and attitudes of the Blue Devils as an organization, its members, and its staff. The only statement I would make to that point is, if you really want to know what kind of people and attitudes comprise the Blue Devil organization, attend a Blue Devil Family Day (or find a video of one, there are a few on the internet); it's a very honest and definitive demonstration of the Corps' personality.

This discussion appears to have veered somewhat deeply into the "are you or are you not patriotic territory," and I'm certain that it wasn't the OP's original intent. However, after reading some of the commentary - including the highly impassioned stuff - as a military family (both my wife and I), I feel compelled to at least throw my two cents in. The honor guard, and to those of you who's tradition dates back to that point - the American Section - was a fitting and integral part of the VFW/AL days, when veteran groups were the primary sponsors of the activity. If I remember correctly, and I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong, the presentation of the color guard was an mandatory part of every corps' show, at least up until a certain point. Accordingly, it had its place and was an expected component by the fans, judges, and the members themselves. In my day (lord help me for using that phrase), that tradition had already faded as a required part of a corps' program. However, I had often seen the presentation of the colors in some other way or form (playing of the national anthem or simply flying over the field as part of the high school, university, etc. I even remember the local ROTC or boys scouts presenting the colors at the beginning of a few shows). It was, and still is, a part of Americana, especially at the small shows in the small towns. Other than what I've mentioned above, however, I don't know that the mandatory - or ever elective - presentation of the colors during a corps' show would really work anymore. Pardon me for saying this, but it would seem out of place in the middle or even prior to a corps taking the field. Now, full retreats are a far different issue, and I have always felt that when the corps are presenting to the crowd, so is the colors. That tradition existed in my day, but I'm told that full retreats have also faded away...that's a shame, for both the fans and the members. Now the controversial part; I don't believe that presenting the colors prior to or during a corps performance is anymore patriotic than not. As a matter of fact, it would appear forced, and that's even worse. As active duty military, I can tell you that nothing is less supportive that when patriotism appears to be either forced or disingenuous. I'm not implying that anyone, either members or staff actually feel that way, but simply pointing out that such "overt" displays of patriotism are somewhat out of place nowadays. A previous writer alluded to the flag lapel pins that adorn so many people, particularly those in public office. In some people, it's an overt act of patriotism and support, in others, it's a blatant and obvious attempt at conformity (I won't mention any names though). The latter is ever worse than when someone does nothing at all. I personally think that the activity has grown beyond the ability to re-insert the colors presentation back into a corps show. As long as there's some kind of patriotic tribute at the start of the show, hey, it works for me.

It's always interesting to see the different means by which individuals - from varied backgrounds - analyze BD's marching technique. I can only speak for my time period, but I was there during the threshold from one style to another. During 1992-1993, the Blue Devils still marched the "glide" technique, emphasis with the knee that is. It looked great at low to mid-tempos, but wasn't very practical at high tempos, unfortunately. I believe that most of you would identify that style from the 80s and early 90s, and I would largely attribute that to Dave Gibbs during his time as the visual instructor there (it was a very effective technique for its period). As a side note, in 1992, Pete Emmons taught marching during his last year as a visual instructor, before he eventually took over full time managment of the A Corps. In 1994, Todd Ryan arrived fresh at a January Camp in Concord. In our very first basic block, he pointedly told us to eliminate all style and technique from our march (ok, maybe it was the circle drill of death, its been a few years). In fact, his explicit instruction was to move naturally, and in a way that allowed the upper body to be as free and relaxed as possible so that one job (marching) never affected the other job (playing). Having marched under his tutelage for a few years, and performed rather well during the years in question (if I'm allowed to say so), I would say that the secret to Todd Ryan's Blue Devil marching technique...is a lack of one. That is to say, the technique is not a forced one such as Garfield or say Cavaliers (easy does it flamers, no offense intended), it simply doesn't have a specific pattern required to be applied during specified situations. I believe it has been of considerable value in allowing horn (and drumline) members to play and project better, particularly at faster tempos. Two other quick points (perhaps controversial, perhaps not); Yes, the Corps has usually slowed down or stopped to play extremely difficult passages. I have no doubt that this was purposed designed so by Jay Murphy and Wayne Downey. Why, as Dave Carico used to say, "...if it doesn't sound good, what's the point." Running your ### off and playing difficult passages may prove that you are immensely talented, but, there's little chance in the passage actually sounding good. Just my opinion though. Oh, and the last of several thousand thoughts about the black pants (note to briefer, they've had big fat white lines running down their pants during the last few years, which you can see really, really well). The Blue Devils have been marching with black pants since the beginning. Starting with the advent of the new uniform, the black pants were clean, with no reflective stripes excetera (except during the early 2000s when the stripe was readded to the uniform). If you think that the black pants are that effective at hiding dirt, and that over the course of some 14 years or so, the marching judges have never caught on, you're really not giving the judges enough credit...I know they're much smarter than that. Again, just my opinion though.

You know, it happens more often than you might think. Always good for laugh though.

I'm not going to insert my personal feelings regarding this topic, what happened is now history and that's the end of it. But I thought that it might be helpful to relay an anecdote which speaks DIRECTLY to this OPs question? Preview of Champions 1992, Vanderbilt Stadium Continuous chant from the crowd heard both during our show and retreat (it was so loud we could hear it in the tunnel), "Beat Star, beat Star", "Star sucks, Star sucks", AND "Anyone but Star" (The last one was shouted a number of times prior to the reading of the scores) It might have been funny to me when I was 18, but now...no

The 1982 and 1994 Blue Devils had a couple, interesting things in common: 1. Wayne Downey 2. Scott Johnson 3. Dave Gibbs 4. A Great Corps 5. A Great Vehicle Oh yeah, the undefeated season and... The one presence that was particularly unique to those two years... John Opedisano Thanks, John. Oh, and I eventually got my voice back.

The speculation always makes for an interesting post. As far as the number of championships they would have won,...no idea. I'm sure their design staff would have continuously worked to push the envelope right up to the breaking point...if not beyond it. Perhaps the activity would have advanced faster...who knows. However, I do want to address one thing that was mentioned about Brass lines...and yes, I'm extremely biased. But, I'll try to limit my comments to an objective observation...as well as I can anyhow. Star, under the expert tutelage of Jim Prime and Donnie Van Doren, produced some of the best hornlines ever...particularly during their last four years. However, I will mention that the BD hornlines during that period were also of a very high caliber. In both '91 and '93, BD and Star wrestled with the brass caption and ended up splitting the Jim Ott Award at Finals. Had Star continued to tour, I have no doubt whatsoever that they would have produced some incredible hornlines, and possibly taken many Jim Ott Awards. However, it is important to mention that BD's horn staff would have remained relatively consistent in the face of such a scenario. Therefore, the quality of the hornlines during the intervening period would have continued to be of a very high-caliber. I imagine that in such a scenario, Star and BD would have traded off tenths of a point in the caption over the course of many seasons. I'm also sure that some of the members that marched BD during the 90s and 00s may have marched Star instead. Ultimately, I'm just saying that there would have been two incredibly talented hornlines performing out here; and I'm not implying that the other top Corps don't produce great hornlines as well, they certainly do. Just that hornlines would have probably been something that both Corps were known for...sort of their signature trademark. It would have definitely made for some interesting competition. But, I certainly don't think that BDs brass program would have "collapsed" or "suffered greatly" with the continued existence of the Star hornline. Would have just made for some great shows, and some intense brass competition come finals night...IMH(but somewhat biased)O. Big Star fan BTW.

Dave Gibbs did, in fact, address this issue, and at length. If you wish to read it, go to Bluedevils.org. As far as most (rational) people are concerned, this issue has been addressed AD NAUSEAM. Let it go. There have been far worse incidents at Finals retreat over the years...far worse. As a direct result of the due diligence and professionalism of the Corps' directors and the greatest majority of the kids who march there, none of these "incidents" have materially damaged the reputations of the activity or of the Corps in question. I will not deny that there are a few individuals out there, particularly here on DCP, who insist on "achieving satisfaction" for the manner in which THEY were personally "wronged." I'm not a psychiatrist, so I'm not going to touch that one. However, this issue needs to go away so that people can enjoy the 2008 season for what it was and look forward, with great anticipation I hope, to next year.

Can we please get away from the, "...the judges MUST take into account the crowd reaction in the GE score!" For those of you who are new to the activity, I'll let it slide. For you old timers, geez, you know full well how this process works. This is not new, unique, or anything else. It has been this way for over 30 years, and will probably continue to be. The judges have a prescribed criteria by which to judge. They cannot rely upon the "presumably" unbiased reaction of a massive crowd of HONKS to determine the GE score. The other posters were right, if that were the case, only VK and Madison would have ever won a championship! If the Corps with the greatest crowd response wins,...GREAT, FANTASTIC, couldn't be happier. If they don't, you have an awesome CD to listen to, and the season is very memorable. Where's the loss? Example of "unbiased" HONK response: In 1992, the first time we ever removed our jackets for "When a Man Loves a Woman" was in Ypsilanti, MI. The crowd stared at us in disbelief and, when we were through, you could hear the crickets in the background. For those of you who think that crowd's response should have been used to configured our GE score, well, I can't break it down any further than that.