BoyWonder1911

hahahahahahahahahahaha This is the funniest post I've read on this forum yet! When George Hopkins comes out onto the field as The Devil, he will have a fiddle in his hands, and will be playing "The Devil Went Down to Georgia" while hopping around on the field during SCV's show, trying to stop people from climbin up his staircase hahahahahahaha! Wish I could give your post 2 green +s!

I really can't see the comparison between this show and 1996. 1996 show was a beast. The opener was slow, sure, but it was very powerful - the way the music built and built until it finally peaked at the end of the opener, haven't heard anything like it since. It was Shostakovich - music was dark, powerful, really captured the mood of the Soviet people at that time in history. With this Juliet show, it is pretty - and Wagner was a great composer for brass alone, not to mention strings - so his music almost naturally fits for drum corps - but his music, in my opinion, just doesn't have that dark sound and power that Shostakovich had. 96 being > than 2011 has, I think, much more to do with Shostakovich > Wagner in this regard, rather than staff and/or show design. But with this kind of theme, Wagner is pretty much the man to go to for the kind of opener they chose. Try doing a Juliet show with Shostakovich - ? Maybe Prokofiev's "Romeo and Juliet" works, because his style is distinctly different than Shos' - and if I remember correctly, they are doing this Prokofiev piece in their show - and Prokofiev's playful nature makes for a good middle mov't of a drum corps show - fast visuals with drum features.

You know, it's hard to like a show when you don't understand it...and some shows' themes are so vague that it is hard to understand...like the Cavaliers' show last year, I did not understand it at first, thus I disliked it...until I figured out it was about PTSD, then I loved it. Same with this year - I don't understand it at all...but I am starting to make a story out of it for myself - I see it as a boy wandering around in the "Where the Wild Things are" storybook. And now that I have made a theme program for myself, I enjoy it more.

My Lord...you Scouts fans are rather rabid....and thank you for the pleasant pm, stevedb. Oh - and I don't drive a bus. That would be too easy. 3rd, I don't have a "beef" with them. Their show, in my opinion, is again, in my top 3 favorites, so far. Haven't seen BK or BC yet. 4th, I was being sarcastic with my "here we go again". This brings up a memory of last year, at the River City Rhapsody competition in La Crosse, WI, the Blue Stars' home competition. I sat on the top row at about the 40 yd line or so. And to my left sat an older gentleman, probably in his 60's or so. He was obviously a big drum corps fan. He had a slightly younger man to his left, and I'm pretty sure they came to the event together, as they would talk amongst themselves. Anyways, when Teal Sound came onto the field, this guy started looking towards the stands, towards the goal post, towards anything BUT the field. In fact, I kept glancing over to see where he was looking at during most of the show, and he wouldn't even LOOK at Teal Sound. He looked at them for literally one second out of the whole 11 min show. And it seemed that he was intentionally trying to make it known that he was refusing to watch the show. I thought that was the rudest thing ever. I know they used a guitar or two, and they aren't close to the best corps on tour, but those kids work hard and deserve applaud, or at least acknowledgement. As the competition progressed, he kept making rude comments about each corps until it came time for the Scouts to take the field, and you'd think this guy had died and gone to heaven. EVERYthing the Scouts did on the field was right for this guy - the corps could do no wrong. Then Crown came onto the field, and he mentioned he was excited about Crown because he had heard "they were supposed to be good this year". Well from the numerous needles of hatred he kept spitting out about different parts of the Crown show, he decided by the end that the corps was not worthy of applaud either. In his words, they should be marching 200 bpm for most of the show. What is ironic is that when the Blue Stars came to take the field (last in order, being a home show), is that he decided to get up and leave because "I don't wanna watch the Blue Stars, there's nothing to watch there." And the Blue Stars' show last year was one of the most active - they even marched a set or two quickly in their ballad. I wanted to say something to this guy so badly, but I kept my mouth shut. So I guess that kinda sets the tone for how I saw Scout fans the rest of last season. Rabid, condescending, arrogant. And I know that I shouldn't look at this guy and think "that is how they all are" because I know that isn't true. I really try not to stereotype. And I hope that you all don't look at anyone else on this forum, form a quick opinion of them, then transfer that stereotype onto the rest of the corps and their fans. That doesn't need to happen, and I will start by extending my hand to the Scout fans here in cordiality, and let's try to keep this a little less vitriolic. Competition is competition, and we all get passionate about it, but without each other corps in the activity, none of this would exist at all. So please, let us end this seemingly growing disconcert between Scouts fans and not just Blue Star fans like myself, but between any corps in general. Probably some of you might think I'm the one who started this all, and I probably did, but I'm willing to stop it. So let's please do that. Back to the topic at hand - I really hope Spirit makes Finals. That would be the story of the year.

Here we go again...

Well I didn't really think they would be allowed to use actual FH in a drum corps, but I guess you cleared that up, but I was wondering what kind of allowed marching horn is closest to the sound of a real FH? And I also agree that marching a FH really doesn't work well because of It would be nice to hear some more variety of sound in a drum corps besides the standard trumpet, mello, bari/euph, and contra. And I don't think that "more variety" should come from synthesizers. An occasional soloists, like say, an electronic clarinet, or a fiddle, or bass guitar, I don't see problems in that, or synthesizers used sparingly for sound effects not possibly made with brass, but synthesizers should not be used to blend with brass, or to add to volume of sound, etc. But that is another topic I'm really not trying to get into here. I used to be one of those who thought drill > music, but now that I've seen tons of live competitions over the past two years, I now think opposite. I'm more impressed with music than drill, and that's probably because it is much easier to see an entire drill and how it works with a show when you're watching it on "the site that shall not be named", rather than up in the stands. A lot of places, even sitting on the very top row will not give you enough height to completely ingest a visual program. But all in all, I love the sound of the French Horn, and mellophones are great and all, but they just aren't the same. I guess they just don't sound "mellow" enough to me. Seems like they can't put out FFF without being piercing, while a Horn can play with a lot of volume but not necessarily having as much a piercing "buzz" to it. Are there any other marching-style horns that come closer to the sound of a French Horn than a mellophone? Would be nice to have some of those older-school horns that some of you talked about to make a reappearance into drum corps. Thanks to all of your replies.

The Other Mike - your post helped a very tiny bit. Thanks for your input, but I'm not really sure I understand the judging system. Heck, I'm not sure ANYbody does, really. Example - will a Cadets or Cavaliers show scoring 80 pts at this very point in time, be the same score as, say, a Spirit show scoring 85pts at Finals? If you took the entire Cadets and froze them cryogenically (sp?)the night they score 85pts, until Finals weekend, but let Spirit or Glassmen or who have you, continue to improve their show until they get 85pts, then unfroze Cadets from their cryogenic freezer, then had them both perform their show at Finals, but you didn't tell the judges that you froze the Cadets, and the Cadets performed their show exactly the way they did when they scored 85 pts, how would the judges judge? Would the Cadets get a 95+ because they are The Cadets? I mean, I don't see a whole lot of difference between an 85pt Cadets show and a 98pt Cadets show. Maybe the visuals are a little bit cleaner, but not a 10 pt difference...how can a brass judge give a corps 7.2 one night, then the very next competition give them a 7.3? How can the judge tell that the corps deserved .1 pts higher than the competition before?? Does he say "well, it's been 2 days, and I didn't hear anything worse than last time, so I'll just give them an extra .1 because they'd probably have to have improved..." And I also agree that SCV has a very difficult show, and that it possibly has the potential to take 4th, in my opinion, if they did it very very well.

That can only be good for drum corps. More and more corps seem to be able to raise the level of their programs. I long for the day when all 12 finalists score 90 or better. And I think it has only happened twice where 9 corps scored 90 or better. 10 have never done it, neither has 11. I don't think it will happen this year, but it would be nice to see it happen.

My God...with the Troopers scoring 70, Colts 69.1, Spirit 71.5 last night, and haven't heard from Academy in a while, and Glassmen having some issues, it's going to be a dogfight for 12th.....not going to be anything like it!

Now I know every drum corps fanatic absolutely loves the sound of 20-25 in-tune mellophones all blaring in your face. But being an ardent listener of classical music, I can't help but be let down that although the mellos make a nice sound for drum corps, they just aren't the same as a French Horn. They don't have that special sweet-round tone that a FH does. I almost wish sometimes that they would march with actual French Horns instead of mellophones. There is nothing like 10-12 French Horns in a Mahler symphony. How about 20-25 on a football field? I drool at the thought.

"After the corps gets back on the road, they're planning on performing their show at truck stops through the Great Plains. It's part of the corps' plan to synch their souls with truck drivers who are taking their own intermission as they drive across the country. They also plan on gorging on Mack (trucks) 'n Cheese." Heh. I'd dig that. INT also need to get some woodwinds and sound recordings. Maybe an electric fiddle might work. Ah heck, why not throw in an entire section of oboes!

You know, I've just been thinking about how scoring works on scale of beginning season and end of season, and here is what I came up with. In the early and mid stages of the season, that is up to about the 3rd week of July, corps' low scores (starting at 60-70 or so) have a lot to do with shows being dirty, both musically and visually. And I think that is why some corps are scoring higher than most people give their show credit for. I've read a lot of people saying Phantom's show just doesn't have what it takes to win, yet they are scoring in top 4 or 5. Yet, some are saying Bluecoats or Crown could be a dark horse for winning it, or at least taking a medal, yet they are, and I know it's all relative at this point, 6th and 7th. Once a show gets cleaned up to the point where the members are pretty much performing it as accurately as they can, then it goes from, say, 80% of their score increased coming from cleaning up, to 20% of their score increased being cleaned up, and the other 80% coming from increases in GE pts gain, i.e. working on a new ending, or putting in some cooler effects, spicing up the show, etc. Is this a commonly held belief? And is this what it means when someone's show "top's out"? For example, a show gets so clean visually and musically as the members can get it, and it still only scores 85 pts, yet another show can be just as clean but scoring 98pts? Is this what it means that some shows are more championship worthy than others? If so, then whose shows have the potential to win, and whose shows can only take them so far before they "top out" and start falling behind in rankings? I guess this is what this particular thread is all about, but I'd like to know the criteria of what makes a show more worthy than another, because in the past two days, I've been involved in some drama on this forum pertaining to my opinion that a certain can only take such and such place. As far as my opinions, I think the current Cadeviliers can all win it, but I think maybe one or two other corps might be able to catch up. Oh - and if my assumptions are false, then does that mean that any show can win, it just depends on whose visuals and music are executed the best? Meaning if say Pioneer or Cascades or someone else near the bottom can manage to get their visuals and music perfectly cleaned and executed, could they win with the shows they are doing this year?

Yes, I know who Henry Ford is/was. I just thought I got taken out of context, really. I want the corps I like to place better than they have been, and when someone else beats us, yeah I get a little sore about it, but I don't think I was being a "sore loser"...I try to be unbiased as possible, really. I took that particular part off of my signature because I was afraid people would start saying "oh you are with x corps, and now I look at them badly." And I really hope that that is not the case. So... Disclaimer: The opinions expressed within my posts are in no way necessarily supported, shared or condoned by any drum corps organization(s) or their affiliates, supporters or donors. And now that I am here, I'll mention that I just watched the last half of the Woodbury competition, and I think all corps did a nice job. The Cavaliers added the drill to their closer, and it was good. The colorguard added a headpiece, and some of the trumpets played upside down.

These opinions are fairly close to mine, minus the placements. Why don't you all start picking on this guy now? He "dared" criticize the show designs of the Scouts (go figure) and Phantom. And for the meantime, I cry uncle. I've had enough of a razzing from everyone. I guess if I'm going to make seeminglyl controversial statements, I should be ready to take the heat. But it does feel good when the inevitable happens...when some people do agree with me. Anyways, no more trolling for me tonight. I have other things I probably should be taking care of at the moment.

I'll add that that is probably the toughest part of the job, other than being awake all night, which obviously is not a problem for me, since I'm here trolling this forum at 3am central. The tight streets and turns don't bother me a whole lot. It's just another challenge, which I enjoy. And I wasn't "running down the name of a corps". Ok, please understand I have a lot of respect for any corps, period! Why am I being misunderstood so much? /end again.

I think some of you have turned some of my words around, and made me out to be a demon. You're trying to make it sound as if I was intentionally and literally blasting or attacking a corps, which I was not doing. I merely said that the Scouts were not good enough yet to take higher than 6th place this year, and the entire thread explodes. But now that I've read the last few posts, I've learned that I probably shouldn't be taking anyone's posts here seriously at all. And also, you say I have zero credibility - well if you assumed anyone on here has any credibility whatsoever anyway, which is what I thought, then I guess we're both mistaken. /end

LOL Just mimicking a couple of peoples' opinions that the Scouts are everything. Yes, I'll admit it, I'm a little sore they 2pointed us the other night. But I'm trying to argue my points from an unbiased perspective. And I'm not bashing on a corps. Would never intentionally do that. Maybe I should just refrain from further posting in this topic.

REcademy Pacific Crest...tide...crest...tide... Newcoats Satan Clara dam.ned-guard ( the "." for the filter) The Blasphemed Holy Name Cadets of Armageddon.....county (GAHHH couldn't help myself) Sinbadvitation 7(the middle-eastern music makes me think of Sinbad rather than sin...) The Madison Newsies (ever watch that musical?) The Kavaliers (Bach wrote the well-tempered klavier...haha get it? They are playing Bach.) The Bleedingheart Devils

Another year or two??? OMG ARE YOU SAYING THEY ARE GOING TO TOP OUT EARLY? YOU HAVE NO IDEA THE TALENT OF THIS CORPS! THEY WORK SO HARD, THEY HAVE THE MOST FUNNEST SHOW, THEY SHOULD WIN IT ALL RIGHT NOW! being sarcastic of course. But they have been doing well, I hope this staff stays there, I agree, maybe 3 more years and they might be able to contend.

I understand this. And I won't underestimate this Jim Mason guy for a second. But at the same time, has the talent level of the corps gone up that much since last year? You can only do so much with what you have in front of you...and I guess what I'm saying is that I wouldn't think the corps has the talent at the moment to be able to compete with the current top 3. And all this was because someone had said that the Scouts could be in the top 3, I think I even read one person saying the Scouts were going to win it all. I can't see that happening. And since this is competition, the kids from the Scouts are competing with the kids from other corps - other corps that probably have more talented members than they do at the moment. Not discounting anyone, but still...You can't take the Orioles, Mariners, A's, Reds, etc and say "They'll get better throughout the season, watch out, they will make the playoffs, possibly win the World Series" when you have teams like the Red Sox, Yankees, Phillies, Giants, Braves that have tons of talent and are in a better position to take those playoff spots and possibly win it all. And even in Baseball, there is a lot more parity than in drum corps. Those top 3 corps, even Crown's brass included, is just on such a higher level, that to say the Scouts, or Phantom, or whoever else are going to be in the top 3, is to discount what the current top 3 corps are doing at the moment, what they've done last year, the talent they have, and to say that these other corps can over take them, is just really not realistic. At least not probable. Being realistic is not rude. I'm trying to be as realistic as I can see things from my not-as-dumb-as-you-think perspective.

Yeah I think the vast majority of corps take their Drum Majors from inside the corps. Phantom Regiment takes all applicants, maybe 1 or 2 more does. The main thing is to have leadership qualities, and being able to take charge, have respect from the members. The DM is basically supposed to be the in-charge member of the corps. How to direct will basically be taught. They will teach/tell you almost exactly how to direct the music. Almost anyone can learn to do that, so being able to conduct is not all there is to being DM.

I'll give the Scouts this much - they are a better corps than last year, with a little better of a show - but - I think their show has a lot of potential. They can add a few things to spice it up. As it stands now, I think it is a 9th place show at the end of the year, but I think they can get to 6th. I think they have a better show than Phantom. At this point with SCV, omg who knows...I think it's good enough for 5th, but as far as execution, that is going to be the key. For some reason, I just feel that the judges are not going to let the Scouts beat SCV. Just like they wouldn't let the Stars beat SCV last year. Can't see it happening. But I think the Scouts are going to take PR's spot in the Top 8. You know, I don't even know why I'm wasting my time and thoughts on this. Really. Anything could happen, I guess, why argue about it. Sigh. It just seems almost futile to predict things. I guess it's fun now, but come mid July, after the Minneapolis show, barring a tornado or anything similar, we should have a pretty good idea how Finals will end up, then predictions are a moot point.

I'm not predicting any final scores, but scores also do depend on how clean a corps can make their show. I am only saying that show design can only take you so far. A house made out of wood will hold better than a house made out of bricks, if the bricks aren't mortared properly together, you see what I'm saying? And i'm not saying the Scouts have an easy show. It's just that compared to the current top 3, it isn't as difficult. And going from 15th to 10th is a smaller step than going from 10th to 5th or 4th. And one more thing. Please note that I am not intending to directly criticize anyone. So if you are starting to get emotionally discontent from this conversation, then please take a step back and realize this is only DCP. I don't intend to disrespect any corps, ok.

Not sure how that sucks all the fun out of it - it makes it more entertaining to me. I really am not entertained all that much if a corps isn't performing that well. A corps should be applauded anyways for their hard work, but more-so for putting out a quality performance. Otherwise, applauding loses its meaning. I really look forward to watching corps make their show and performance better and better as the season goes on. That is what makes drum corps one of my very favorite things. So that is why I watch for every flaw - because in a couple days, or a week, or two weeks, I will see that corps again and watch them not make some of those same mistakes that they made the last time I saw them - and that is what brings a smile to my face - watching them achieve higher levels of performance.

OK I looked up Jim Mason. "A lifetime veteran of drum and bugle corps and other musical activities, Mason marched in the 1975 World Champion Madison Scouts, became director of the Colts, and then directed the Star of Indiana to the World Championship title in 1991. Mason has been the creative driving force behind Star of Indiana/Blast Inc. since its founding in the fall of 1984 and served as its President/Executive Director and Program Coordinator." That is impressive. But at the same time, the Scouts are still in that rebuilding phase. It takes time for a corps to get to that very high level. The top corps are top because of either 1 of 2 things - they attract the highest quality auditionees, therefore have the most talented group, or 2) in the case of the Bluecoats, they are good at retaining membership, therefore they grow together and end up having a very high number of veterans who don't go and leave the corps to try out for a higher corps. I think the Scouts staff knows that this corps is not ready to make a run for a championship, nor should they. They should go out and try to create a high quality show that is in the difficulty range that its members can achieve, while at the same time is challenging enough to keep the members engaged in learning and work ethic, and also at the same time turning out an entertaining show not only to watch, but to participate in. The Scouts staff hasn't created a show difficult enough to win the championship or even to move into the top 4 or 5, and neither should they. Growth happens over time in smaller, measured steps. I think they have a great show and they will keep getting better if they can put out high quality shows that are entertaining, growing the corps culture, and all this to attract better talent to their corps.