Jim White

If it ain't snowin, I'm goin.......

Does anybody have any info on the Renegades? Are they coming back for the 2014 season in any way, shape or form or are they just another footnote in the history of Drum Corps? Their website looks like it hasn't been updated in a year or so and there is no mention of them on the DCA site. Inquiring minds want to know.

Geneva Appleknockers (Sr.) Rochester Grey Knights Rochester Phoenix Pittsburg Rockets Erie Thunderbirds Hamburg Kingsmen Interstatesmen

The Appleknockers also performed winter concerts in the late 50's into the early 60's. They frequently had more horn players during the winter concerts than they would have on the field. There are several concert albums from various years - '58, '61 and the Evening with the Corps recording from '64. They would play sit-down style with a trap drummer and also featured french-horn player Don Phipps on Upright Bass on several numbers. Jack Bullock arranged most of their music which featured a lot of Gerswin, show tunes and popular hits of the day. They also featured the first contrabass designed by Jack Bullock and developed by the Royce-Whaley corp. around 1958 which was too heavy to carry on the field (not an over the shoulder model) but was used in concert and can be heard on the recordings. Apple Blossom Time was their theme song and closer. Ace Petersen and Hardy Carrasas (sp?) were their principal soloists along with Don Phipps and others.

Various upstate New York corps of the 60's and 70's......... The Shortsville Shamrocks (NY) The Dynamic Duo (1-yr merger of the Shortsville Shamrocks and the Auburn Purple Lancers) The Grey Knights (NY) The (Hilton, Irondequoit, Rochester) Crusaders (NY) The Magnificent Yankees (NY) The Brigaders (NY) The Phoenix (NY) Mighty St. Joe's (NY Emerald Cadets (NY) Emerald Statesmen (NY) Greece Cadets (NY) Squires (NY) Grenadiers (NY) Pardee Pacers (NY) Alpine Girls (NY) Mellodears (NY) Hit Men (NY)

Ken "Ace" Peterson, originally with the Geneva Appleknockers in the 50's and 60's, is still marching with the Mighty St. Joe's Alumni Corps at 82 years old. I saw him marching last week at the Clifton Springs Sulpher Springs Festival with St. Joes.

Shortsville Shamrocks picture from 1958 Snare drummer first row 2nd from left is Ron Schaefer.....played with the Sr. Appleknockers 2nd row 3rd from left is Tom Fogarty next to Dave Baroody and 6th from left is Rich Hudson (Sr. and Jr. Appleknockers) 3rd row 2nd from left is Phil Fogarty and 6th from left is Tom Hesseny top row with rifle is Dick Pronti This was the parade corps for the Citizens Hose Company and the Turner-Schrader Post 34 American Legion. In 1963, the Shamrocks began field competition in the NY/Penn Circuit with Dick Pronti as Drum Major and Drill Instructor/Drill Writer

At the time of the picture, the corps was an all-age parade corps marching for the local Citizens Hose Company and American Legion Turner/Schrader Post 34. It became a junior corps in 1963 when it joined the NY/Penn circuit and began field competitions......back then legal drinking age was 18 and he could pass at around 13 without showing an id......

He was a 1961 graduate of Red Jacket Central School whose other famous classmate was Phil Bredesen, former mayor of Nashville and governor of Tennesee..........

I remember the Ridge-Culver Statesmen merging with the Emerald Cadets becoming the Emerald Statesmen for a couple years in the 60's......

I personally did not go on to instruct after I aged out of junior drum corps in 1966, but several members of the Shortsville Shamrocks did go on to instruct: 1) Dick Pronti - color guard, horn player, drum major and drill writer/instructor for the Shamrocks also wrote drill for several corps, became a DC judge, founded the DCA I&E and became an advisor to several corps and was a WDHOF member. 2) Jack Bullock grew up in Shortsville and is most known for his work with the Geneva Appleknockers. He was also an advisor/instructor to the Shamrocks and wrote/taught in the early years. Also a WDHOF member and original founder of the Gorham Pagent of Bands. 3) Dave Baroody and Tom Hessney started as horn players with the Shamrocks and later moved to the senior Appleknockers. Dave and Tom were instructors with the junior Appleknockers. 4) Brothers Tom and Phil Forgarty began their drum corp careers in the drumline with the Shamrocks and both moved on to other corps as drum instructors. Tom was also a drum major for the Shamrocks. 5) Bill Decker began his drum corps career with the Shamrocks and later instructed drum lines for several corps and also became a DC judge. 6) Brady Rouse played horn with the Shamrocks in the mid-60's and went on to do drill instruction with several drum corps and colorguard units. There was a lot of talent that came out of the little towns of Shortsville and Manchester......maybe you recognize some of these names......

Some of us old guys remember the Rochester Grey Knights being a pretty good corps.......

In the late 1950's, Jack Bullock of the Geneva Appleknockers worked with the Whaley Royce company to develop the first contrabass used by a drum corps. The only flaw with the horn was that it was designed to play up front and not as a shoulder model. It was too heavy to use on the field, but the Appleknockers used it in their winter sit-down concerts and it can be heard quite distinctly on some of their late-50's/early 60's concert recordings. They also had Don Phipps play an upright string bass during one of their Gershwin medleys......... I've always wondered what happened to that horn....I would think that it would have some historical value.

There was another Emerald Cadets out of Rochester NY which competed in the Penn/York circuit in the 60's....attached is their history from corpreps..... The Emerald Cadets of Point Pleasant Incorporated Irondequoit, (Rochester) New York The Point Pleasant Fire Department of Irondequoit, a suburb of Rochester, New York, sponsored a fire tournament team, marching band, color guard and parade drum & bugle corps in one form or another from 1899 to 1958. These groups collectively were known as the “Point Pleasant Pea Pickers” at least from 1946 to 1958, incorporating the nick-name used by the fire department. By the mid and late 1950’s many fire departments were no longer capable of sponsoring drum & bugle corps since corps were getting larger and more expensive to maintain and were disbanding at a quick rate. The Point Pleasant parade corps and color guard was led by Kenneth VanWuyckhyuse, who was their Drum Major and Corps Director. At a weekly rehearsal Mr.VanWuyckhyuse announced that the Fire Department was no longer financially capable of sponsoring the corps and that they were considering folding. William A. McGrath Sr. had just brought his three oldest children to join the Point Pleasant corps from another unit across town, known as the Chili Crimson Cadets who had just experienced a similar fate. Rather than see the Point Pleasant corps fold, Mr. Van Wuyckhyuse asked Mr. McGrath, who had earlier drum corps experience, to manage the corps. Mr. McGrath had been the Drum Major and Acting Commander of the 344th Cadet-Training Squadron Army Air Corps Drum & Bugle Corps of Oklahoma City in 1944 and later Director of the Barnard Fire Department Blue Devils Drum & Bugle Corps of Greece (Rochester) New York from 1949 to 1961. Mr. McGrath reorganized the unit as an independent group, remaining with the Point Pleasant Fire Department as a parade corps, also continuing on as a field competition corps. The name was changed to the Point Pleasant Cadets. The corps went on to become the Monroe County and Western New York Parade Champions from 1959 to 1961. The Point Pleasant Cadets grew in size and scope and Mr. McGrath felt that the name of the unit needed to be changed to reflect competition status. He held a staff meeting to get some ideas as to what to name the corps. Several good ideas came up! The one that stuck was from his daughter Karen. Since the majority of the membership of the corps had two favorite corps, the Garfield Cadet and the St. Kevin’s Emerald Knights, it was her suggestion to take the first name of each corps and combine them into the Emerald Cadets. Mr. McGrath liked the idea, as it also fit in with his Army Air-Corps training days where the training unit that he was in was known as the “Air-Cadets”. The corps, still affiliated with the Point Pleasant Fire Department, officially became the Emerald Cadets of Point Pleasant Incorporated, better known as the Emerald Cadets. In 1961 Mr. McGrath along with his wife Irene, who worked in the capacity of publicity director, had aspirations of changing from a parade corps to a competitive field marching and maneuvering corps. Irene wrote a monthly article for the old Drum Corps World informing drum corps enthusiasts of the latest developments of the Emerald Cadets and what was happening in Western New York. From 1961 to 1965, the horn line was instructed by Armand Bruni (no relation to Vince) and Ed Cozzolino. The business manager was Phil Smith. The marching instructor was Fred O’Connor. The drum-line was instructed by Guy Iannello, Larry Saxman and John Russi. The quartermaster was Ray Cody Sr. The Drum Majors were Kenneth VanWuyckhyuse and Richard (Dick) Jarvis. Color Guard Captain was Carol Fox. The corps Chaplin was Ray Hafner and the corps mascot was Shirley McGrath. In order to maintain operations and meet the objective of being a field competition unit the corps maintained its parade schedule, operated a bingo game and held an annual indoor winter standstill competition known as “Sound Off”. The idea for the name “Sound Off” came from Mr. McGrath’s Army days in which a “Sound Off” segment is contained in a “Pass In Review” ceremony. The Emerald Cadets sponsored the “Sound Off” shows from 1960 to 1969, making it the main fund-raiser for the corps. These “Sound Off” shows were well-known in drum corps circles as being unique and innovative. The main idea behind the show was to perform an outdoor show scaled down for an inside arena making the corps ready for summer competition. Each unit was informed ahead of time of the restricted floor space available and that they were required to make a marching entry then perform the rest of their field music in a standstill format then make a marching exit. Two separate prizes were awarded, one for the marching performance and one for the music standstill. The itinerary was usually a junior-based competition with a senior exhibition featuring corps from all over the U.S. and Canada. Better known guests of “Sound Off” were the Garfield Cadets, Boston Crusaders, Blue Rock, St.Mary’s Cardinals, Toronto Optimists, De Lasalle, Phantom Regiment, Selden Cadets, Marion Cadets, Hawthorne Caballeros, Skyliners, Crusaders, Reilly Raiders. Up and coming corps were encouraged to participate to give them opportunity for more exposure on a large scale. We were particularly proud to have the Reilly Raiders in their debut performance back from their 1963 stand-down season. The show was always very well attended and something the fans looked forward to every year! The Emerald Cadets were members of two competitive circuits, the New York Canadian, and the Penn York. We were occasionally guests of the Hudson Berkshire circuit, and maintained an independent competitive status as well. The corps had the proud distinction of being the Penn York circuit champions from 1963 to 1967 and New York State American Legion Seventh District champions in 1966. They were also winners of the Marion Ohio “Cavalcade of Music” in 1963, placed third in 1964 and won again in 1967. The drum quartet and competition color guard were both well-known in competitive circles. The drum quartet won the New York Canadian Individual and Ensemble Competition in 1963 and 1964, as well as taking second in the VFW Nationals in Chicago in 1965. Bill Morrison won third place individual snare drum in the Archer Epler American Legion National Individual Competition in 1963, and Bill McGrath Jr. won the New York Canadian individual snare drum title in 1968 just five weeks before his age-out date. The color guard was the Canadian International Champions in 1962 and the Penn York Circuit champion color guard from 1963 to 1967. The competition guard was also members of the International Color Guard Circuit from 1965 to 1969 and placed fourth in the World Open Championships in Boston in 1968. This corps had the proud distinction of performing as the Emerald Statesmen in 1966 and 67 as a result of a merger between the Emerald Cadets of Irondequoit and the Irondequoit Statesmen. With the Emerald Cadets, having a drum-line and color guard of supreme excellence and the Statesmen, having a great horn line of superior skills, the benefits of merging were quite evident. The Corps was co-directed by Bill McGrath Sr. and Vincent A. Bruni. By this time the horn line was instructed by Truman W. Crawford and Ray Shahin. The drum-line by Doug Kleinhans and Bill McGrath Jr. The marching instructors were Bill McGrath Sr. and Vincent Bruni. The business managers were Irene McGrath, Joseph Guadagnino Sr. and Bob Davis and Harvey Martin. The Color Guard Captains were Sally Short in 1966, Janet Hafner in 1967. The Drum Majors were Steve Guadagnino, & Ron Bowks. The bingo chairman was Betty Short. The corps secretaries were Sandy Buck and Anne Spencer. The Irondequoit Statesmen who appeared in the finals in the World Open in 1965, placed 10th. The Emerald Statesmen placed 10th in the World Open in that same Boston Mass championship competition in 1966. At the end of the 67 season the corps went back to their original name of Emerald Cadets and continued competitive endeavors in 1968 placing second in the Penn-York Championships. New instructors that were added to the brass staff for 1968 were Alex Molinich and Jack Bullock. The Color Guard Captain was Mickey Short, the Drum Major was James Gleason and Color Guard Instructor was Karen McGrath. Thirty-Seven members of the Emerald Cadets / Emerald Statesmen served in the U.S. armed forces between 1965 and 1968. Six of these soldiers served in combat status. All came back except for William Seiler who died in service to our country in Vietnam. Mr. McGrath’s two sons were also military bound, William to the Marine Corps and later Thomas to the Air Force. At the end of the ‘68 season McGrath Sr. suspended operations of the corps and gave all of the legal documentation to his sons. When McGrath Jr. returned home from the Marine Corps he had the legal authority to re-start “The Emerald Cadets” but chose not to do so until an age-line could be established between Senior & Junior Corps. William Jr. appealed to many of the nations top Senior Corps leaders to establish a permanent age line between Senior and Junior Corps but his pleas were largely ignored. This common sense age-line proposal was never adopted by the Senior Corps community therefore he never restarted the corps! This corps was and is a tight knit unit with its membership holding occasional reunions, picnics as well as participating in weddings, baptisms, confirmations and other special events. This corps was like a family who stuck together through thick and thin and is still very much involved with each other to this day!

DCA mini corps Silver medalist 2010 (2nd in the world) @ the DCA mini corps championships. I was in the audience that night and you guys were on fire.......should have won it all IMHO.....Star won on reputation that night and not on performance.......youse guys was robbed...........

The guy looks like a young Rodney Dangerfield to me...........

Dick Pronti has a lot more hair than that guy.............or were you referrlng to another Dick P?

The new name for downtown facility: Sahlen's Stadium By THOMAS ADAMS Rochester Business Journal February 10, 2011 Sahlen Packing Co. Inc., a Buffalo-based maker of hot dogs and other meat products, has reached an agreement for the naming rights for the downtown stadium on Oak Street, officials announced Thursday. The contract includes an initial five-year agreement with Rochester Rhinos holding company Adirondack Sports Club LLC and a five-year renewal beginning in 2016. Sahlen’s Stadium is the home field for the Rhinos of the United Soccer Leagues Professional Division, the Rochester Rattlers of Major League Lacrosse and the Western New York Flash of Women’s Professional Soccer. The Flash, owned by Sahlen, joined WPS as an expansion team as of last September after winning the USL W-League as the Buffalo Flash in 2010. The Flash played its home matches last season at Canisius College. The Rhinos begin their 16th season in April. The Flash and the Rattlers begin their seasons in May. “This is an exciting day for our organization,” Rhinos owner and chairman Robert Clark said. “Sahlen’s long-term commitment gives stability to the stadium and our franchises. We also believe our partnership as it pertains to the Western New York Flash brings economic value to the community.” Sahlen’s Stadium also is slated to play host to the Drum Corps Association World Championships in 2011, the sixth consecutive year in Rochester. St. John Fisher College and the University of Rochester will play their Courage Bowl football game at the stadium this year for the second straight season, and several Section V high school football championships and other prep events will continue to be played there, officials said. “The entire Sahlen organization is thrilled to be partnering with the Rochester Rhinos to contribute to the promotion of soccer and the Sahlen brand in the Western New York region,” President Joseph Sahlen said. “Sahlen’s Stadium is state of the art among soccer venues and the Flash is proud and excited to call it home and be part of the community in Rochester.” The stadium was known as Paetec Park from its 2006 inception until after the 2008 season. It was Marina Auto Stadium in 2009 and 2010.

WDCHOF INDUCTED 1981 JACK BULLOCK Jack Bullock is known for his innovations in bugle instruction and arranging, mainly with the Geneva Appleknockers in upstate New York. In the 1950s, he was one of the first to create jazz-styled horn arrangements. He also made performing a year-round activity, scheduling sit-down stage concerts during the winter months. For many winters, the Appleknockers attracted more members for the winter schedule of performances than for summer parades and field shows. He was instrumental in working with Whaley Royce and Co. manufacturers of Toronto, Canada in introducing the first contra-bass bugle, almost 10 years before the over-the-shoulder model became common. The Whaley Royce design produced the proper sound, but the horn was the conventional bugle shape. The weight of the instrument made it too heavy and cumbersome to manage while marching, and it was used only briefly by the Appleknockers. He had joined the Geneva Appleknockers senior drum and bugle corps as a bugler in the spring of 1948. In 1951, he was drafted into the United States Army, serving for two years. He rejoined the Appleknockers, serving as a bugler, arranger and instructor intermittently through the 1960s. When the Appleknockers ceased operations, he became arranger and instructor for a number of corps in western New York, including Geneva Junior Appleknockers, Auburn Purple Lancers and Rochester Crusaders. He was a well-known arranger and instrumental clinician with Warner Bros. Music, in Miami, FL for many years following his drum corps career.

I remember competing in an indoor show at the Rochester War Memorial on February 27, 1965 hosted by the newly merger Grey Knight Crusaders. The show included St. Joes of Batavia, Magnificent Yankees of Utica, Blue Rocks from Delaware, York Lions from Toronto, the Graniteers from Rochester, NH and us, the Shamrocks of Shortsville, NY. The Albion Grenadiers, the Grey Knight Crusaders and the Emerald Cadets also performed exibitions. We also competed in a March 27, 1966 standstill indoor show in Utica, NY competing against St. Roccos, OLPH Ridgemen, Emerald Statesmen and the Apalachin Grenadiers hosted by the Magnificent Yankees. I also remember attending several winter concerts by the Senior Geneva Appleknockers in the mid-1950s through early 1960s. They would play almost 2 hours of jazz arrangement by Jack Bullock. They would feature several soloists such as Ken Peterson and Don Phipps. They sometimes had more horn players on the winter circuit than during the summer parade and contest events. They were the first corps to include an upright string bass (played by Don Phipps) and a contra bass which was developed by Jack Bullock with the Whaley-Royce Company approximately 10 years before the over-the-shoulder model became popular. The corps was innovative and ahead of their time. So, yes I do remember indoor drum corp events before April.............

The Hawthorne Caballeros played Peanut Vendor in 1957, 58 and 1989. Many recordings are available....

That's Kenny "Ace" Peterson of the Geneva Appleknockers and member of the WDCHOF. He was great back in the 50's and early 60's and still marches (and solos) with Mighty St. Joes Alumni Corps at age 80+. Check YouTube for the Three Tenors in the DCA I&E and you'll see him play with Frank Dorritte......

Chuck probably never heard of you either................ Early life and career Born and raised in Rochester, New York, Mangione and his pianist brother Gap led the Jazz Brothers group which recorded three albums for Riverside Records. He attended the Eastman School of Music from 1958 to 1963, and afterwards joined Art Blakey's Jazz Messengers, for which he filled the trumpet seat, previously held by greats such as Clifford Brown, Kenny Dorham, Bill Hardman, and Lee Morgan.[2] In the late sixties, Mangione was a member of the band The National Gallery, which in 1968 released the album Performing Musical Interpretations of the Paintings of Paul Klee.[3] Mangione served as director of the Eastman jazz ensemble from 1968 to 1972, and in 1970, he returned to recording with the album Friends and Love, recorded in concert with the Rochester Philharmonic Orchestra and numerous guest performers.[4] Mangione's quartet with saxophonist Gerry Niewood was a popular concert and recording act throughout the 1970s. "Bellavia," recorded during this collaboration, won Mangione his first Grammy Award in 1977 in the category Best Instrumental Composition.[5] Mangione's composition "Chase the Clouds Away" was used at the 1976 Summer Olympics, held in Montreal, Quebec, with a later composition, "Give It All You Got," being used as the theme to the 1980 Winter Olympic Games, held in Lake Placid, New York. He performed it live at the closing ceremonies, which were televised globally.[6] In 1978 Mangione composed the soundtrack for the film "The Children of Sanchez" starring Anthony Quinn. This album won him his second Grammy, in the category Best Pop Instrumental performance in 1979 and the title song, almost 15 minutes long in full version and featuring one of the most recognizable wind section themes, has not lost its popularity to this day. In addition to his quartet with Niewood, Mangione also had much success with his later-‘70s ensemble, including Mangione on flugelhorn and keyboard, Chris Vadala on saxophones and flutes, Grant Geissman on guitars, Charles Meeks on bass and James Bradley, Jr. on drums. This version of Mangione’s band recorded and toured behind the hit studio albums “Feels So Good” and “Fun and Games,” as well as the “Children of Sanchez” film soundtrack recordings, and were some of the musicians that played on various songs as part of Mangione's 1980 “Tarantella" benefit concert. The band was also featured, along with a 70-piece orchestra, on the live album “An Evening of Magic,” which was recorded at the Hollywood Bowl on July 16, 1978, at the height of Mangione’s success from “Feels So Good.” Performances of material new and old included versions of “Main Squeeze,” “Hill Where the Lord Hides” and “Chase the Clouds Away.” Mangione opened and closed the show with “Feels So Good” and its “Reprise” version. “B’Bye” featured a string arrangement from Bill Reichenbach. The horns were arranged by frequent collaborator Jeff Tkyzik, who also played trumpet in the horn section that night. Mangione also played material from the just-released “Children of Sanchez” soundtrack album, which made its West Coast concert debut. The liner notes from the album describe the frenzy in which the performance was put together. Unable to set up on stage the day before (The Los Angeles Philharmonic played the “1812 Overture” on July 15), Mangione and his crew had only the day of show to set up lights, sound and recording gear. He had only nine hours the day before to rehearse at A&M studios with the orchestra's musicians and was never able to run through the entire set list once in its entirety. He and the band stayed at a hotel up the street from the Bowl to make sure they wouldn't miss the performance due to snarled traffic pouring in as showtime neared. Nevertheless, the show went off without a hitch and was captured without incident. In December 1980, Mangione held a benefit concert in the American Hotel Ballroom in Rochester to benefit the victims of an earthquake in Italy. The nine-hour concert included jazz luminaries such as Chick Corea, Steve Gadd and Dizzie Gillespie, among a host of other session and concert greats. “Tarantella,” named for the Italian traditional dance, a vinyl album of some of the show’s exceptional moments was released soon thereafter, but has yet to resurface on CD. A 1980 issue of Current Biography called "Feels So Good" the most recognized tune since "Michelle" by The Beatles. Recently, smooth jazz stations throughout the United States have recognized Mangione's "Feels So Good" as their all-time number one song.[7] He raised over $50,000 for St. John's Nursing Home at his 60th Birthday Bash Concert, held at Rochester's Eastman Theatre and played a few bars of "Feels So Good.[8]

Just my opinion, but I think the 1963 Senior Appleknockers off the line version of "Strike Up the Band" was a superior arrangement to the Crusaders version.........