Phan89

Can't fault you for preferring one sound over the other

I literally think you may be the first person I've ever heard since Crown started winning Jim Ott trophies in 09 say that the Blue Devils have a more pleasing tone quality than Crown. Do they have technique? Yeah. Range? You bet....but tone quality, balance, blend? Crown trumps all in these categories which is why they have beaten the Devils in brass 2 of the last 3 years.

I disagree. That hornline is at a much higher level than the Blue Devils hornline.

Considering the Cadets have only finished ahead of Crown in finals in 1 of the past 4 seasons, I wouldn't be quite so sure :)

I think as far as corps arrangers go, none stick to the original work more faithfully than Michael Klesch. Love his arrangements, because they are more like transcriptions than arrangements.

The connections between Crown and Star/Cadets are quite strong of course. They're definitely NOT Star though, Crown is its own corps with its own traditions and personality, but the connection is obvious nonetheless. On brass staff alone you have Matt Harloff, Ray Linkous, and Ben Harloff who marched Star, Joe Padawan who marched Blast!, and Donnie VanDoren and Barry Hudson who were on brass staff at Star, as well as Bob Chreste who marched Cadets and then Blast!. On visual staff there is Ron Hardin, Brian Kraft, Brian Soules, Chris Considine, and Eric Considine, all whom marched Star. Thom Hannum and Michael Klesch are both past big-time arrangers for the Cadets during the mid-late 80s, and Thom was the percussion arranger for Star from 1990-1993. Leon May was also a Cadet, as well as being on visual staff there during the 90s, and Zach Schlicher, percussion caption head, was a Cadet snare, being center snare in 2004. I definitely hear that mid-80s Cadets sound when I hear 2012 Crown. Having Thom and Michael working together again in drum corps is a treat for this group, and I hope they truly take advantage of it.

Wow, Cadets/Cavaliers/Blue Devils fans really get snarky when their favorite corps gets beat.

My thoughts/impressions on the show and corps after following them and hearing camp recordings throughout the off-season, seeing them three times during spring training, and seeing them in the theaters: There are sections of this show and corps that are untouchable. The opener comes to mind. That is world championship-caliber design, plain and simple. If they can clean the opener to its full extent, there is no other drum corps on the field attempting that level of difficulty, and they will be rewarded for it. In addition, the horn line is clearly dominant again this year, and will without a doubt win the brass trophy when it is all said and done, since (as previously mentioned) no other horn line is attempting nearly the level of difficulty that this group is. The color guard and drumline are both noticeably better than the past few years in terms of design, and they now really just need to clean it up. Thom Hannum has done a wonderful job and has turned this drumline into such a musical group, as opposed to just ramming a thousand notes (although the book is definitely still difficult). Other positive points of the show that I think are championship quality: The Dreams Mvt. 3 section midway through the show with the crazy brass runs and double-tonguing, The transition section IMMEDIATELY after the opener with the wonderful flag feature and triumphant rendering of Fanfare, The closer music (although I'm sure Klesch and Hannum will supplement the music mid-season), the gradual company front in Fanfare which leads to the huge climax. Now, any review wouldn't be complete without the negatives, so here goes: Many of the various transition moments REALLY need some work. The mini-percussion feature with the Boing! and the other strange effects needs some serious work as far as pacing and cleanliness...it just seems very thin right now. Also, the long percussion feature after Dreams 3 midway through the show HAS to change. The effects in the pit/battery with the temple blocks, etc, do not translate to the field very effectively...if this percussion feature were to be played indoors, it would sound way more effective and completely different, but on the field, the effects don't have the impact that they need. Also, some of this percussion feature drill is quite boring and while very difficult on the members in terms of step size, does not look difficult because of the large intervals between the corps proper. Also, the uniform change by the entire corps during the beginning of Fanfare has to be much more of a MOMENT. This signals the change from individuals to the entire group working together (the main idea behind the show), and needs to be the moment of the show. I also think the closer drill could use some work, but I'm sure that it is just placeholder. Overall, this corps is just plain great. This is the first show from Crown that can truly compete for a world championship on all levels, not just musically, and I wish them the best. If they get it cleaned up...look out, because this corps is on a mission to prove something, and it makes me excited to see how the season unfolds.

I never said it hasn't been done before. However, THIS year (2011), no other corps came close in terms of brass book difficulty, if only for this part alone (there were other very difficult parts in the show as well). Also, teaching a line how to triple tongue isn't hard. The hard part is getting 80 brass players to do it in time together. That is why it took all summer.

The triple tonguing on individual notes wasn't the hard part. The hard part is that the triple tonguing is three different notes per triplet for much of it, so each triplet would be like "F-Ab-C", so we were changing notes during it, which is much harder than repeatedly triple tonguing the same note. That kind of technique usually takes months to develop in brass players, as you know, so we had to bust our tails in order to make it happen in the time that we were able to accomplish it in.

The original sheet music is marked at Quarter Note= 192bpm. We played it severely down-tempo for most of the season (it was hard), and brought it up towards the latter half of the season.

160? That section was 196bpm. I can show you the sheet music if you'd like. :)

Crown needs some stud tuba players and stud mello players.

Prediction? Crown will win the Jim Ott by a landslide...again.

Are you really trying to claim that they actually look good in that second picture? The horn angles are all over the place and they have bad posture. Look at pictures of some Blue Devils and you'll understand why the Cadets should not have won visual.

Well, probably the corps I marched (Crown). Other than Crown, I'd have to say Star of Indiana. Being an alumnus of Crown Brass, you can't help but love the old Star lines when most of your staff marched in those lines. Not only that, but I just plain love Star. Back in 2005 when I first got interested in drum corps, I would go on dci.org and listen to the little sample audio clips that were there. The first one I came across (totally by coincidence) was Star 89...the big hit with the mello lick in the opener. Since then I was hooked on corps and fell in love with Star. Plus, you can't listen to the "Praise Ye" hit from the beginning of Star 90 and even suggest that there has been a better hornline since...except of course for the later Star lines and the recent Crown lines. I'm such a homer :)

I was a big fan of the opening hit in Phantom's show, and of course "Creep" was quite a nice moment from the Bluecoats. Vanguard percussion was great, and Crown's hornline untouchable. The Cadets show never really clicked with me. Too many glaring performance and cleanliness issues, and wasn't a fan of the music. Flow-wise the show worked very well, but it just doesn't do much for me.

I had a guy come up to me at a high school marching band competition (I was wearing a Crown tour shirt) and ask me where I marched. I told him Crown, and he proceeded to tell me about how he marched Vanguard in 02, BD in 03, Cavaliers in 04, and then Crown from 05-07. Considering that I marched 2006-2011 at Crown, and did not recognize him in the slightest, I chuckled on the inside and just said, "Cool, man." The nerve of some people.

I think the Cadets had the best drill design, yes. Best music design? Not even close. Several corps out-designed them and flat out out-played them musically, including BD and Crown. While I think that the Cadets had a very well designed show in 2011, I do not understand what people seem to think is so great about it. The other 3 corps in the top 4 were much cleaner.

First of all, it wasn't double tonguing, it was triple tonguing. They used a three-syllable method and they were triplets, thus, double tonguing. Secondly, it wasn't split up amongst the hornline. The only "splitting up" occurred so that people could breathe and come back in. And no, its not easier than I think. WE spent the entire season cleaning that section. We played it all the time, every day, all summer.

Yeah man, that section where the entire hornline triple tongued for 16 measures....that was EASY!!!

I marched Crown for the past 6 years and not a single member who I marched with ever left to go march Spirit, except for Aaron Railey, who marched in the pit at Crown in 2009 and 2010, and wanted to be in the battery, so he marched as the center snare for Spirit in 2011, and is now on the snareline for Crown 2012. Not saying its out of the question, just that it hasn't happened once in the past six years. Unless you're talking about people who got cut from Crown who went to Spirit...that is definitely something that happens a lot.

Just to lay rumors to rest: I got a spot at Crown when I was 15. I marched with them for 6 years. Of course, back when I made Crown (2006), the hornline wasn't nearly as hard to get a spot in as it is now.

Oh this is a novel argument! You're right! All Crown plays is B-flat major chords, right? Oh, wait, wrong. What about the A minor chord hit in the opener in 2009? Or the E-flat major suspension chord in the 2009 closer? Or F minor v chord in the Khachaturian opener in 2010? Or, the B-flat mm 7 chords in the Mahler, or the F mm 7 chords as well in the Mahler? Or what about the e-flat major hit in 2011? OR the A open-fifth chord in paint it black in 2011? Or the D minor chord that ends paint it black? Ah, you MUST be talking about the D-flat major hit in Clair de Lune in 2008! Oh, thats right! Crown isn't the only drum corps that plays B-flat major chords. How about actually knowing what chords corps play instead of assuming that because Crown often ends on B-flat major (which almost ALL drum corps do, frequently), that those are the only chords they play.

I started marching corps when I was 15. Was I ready? No. Did I work as hard as the people who were up to 7 years older than me? Nope. Was I a completely different person after that first summer? You bet your ### I was. And now, sitting here 7 years later and probably 50 years wiser, I can confidently say that it was completely worth it! :)