DCA1Fan

So White Sabres won the show! Congrats!!! :)

Saw on the recap that Kilties topped MBI in that new "Music Communication" subcaption even though MBI beat them in GE Music. Now I have not seen either show, so can't comment on whether the numbers were deserved (have to assume they were) but that tells me there is at least one judge who 1) doesn't see communication as simply an extension of GE Music and 2) isn't afraid to call it like he sees it! Kudos to the judge, right or wrong, for being willing to do both and here's hoping other judges will do the same in that caption instead of taking the cheap way out and judging the two as if they were one.

Want to chat about a few great things i saw at the show, but wanted to get the bee out of my bonnet first. All corps, even exhibition corps, need to adhere to their performance schedule. I felt bad for Cadets2 on Saturday, waiting for their time on the field. Yes, the shows are for entertainment and the audience, but not getting off the field when you are supposed to is not only disrespectful to the next group, it can mess with their performance mindset. This is, for those corps, a competition. Most directors I know have that stuff carefully timed to maximize their group's performance. Ok, enough bad... Three things from Saturday well worth the price of admission and groups I want to catch in the "lot": 1) Bucs percussion. Wow, just...wow. not only are they throwing down some complicated stuff, they are doing it with practiced ease and that certain look in their eye. This line, in my opinion, could compete with any of the junior lines out there on playing ability. I think they actually dared the judge to say something negative! If you've seen Bucs show once, next time, just follow the battery or watch the pit. They are possessed! 2) Hurcs guard. I swear most of the show they had one member out there and 20+ mirrors. That performance could have been at finals without shame. When you consider so many groups aren't even done their basic guard book, it is even more amazing. You dont see transitions...you dont see dead space...you dont see extraneous motion. The fluidity and grace of the group as a whole was breathtaking. Pagentry in motion is an understatement! 3) Fusion's brass. I had to count the line 3 times, then watch as the backdrop was taken away to see if more brass members were hiding back there. These cats can play, and not just loud but musical. Bucs may have them beat on the technical brass book and sheer volume, but Fusion is a leg up in both musicality and sheer entertainment. Their third place was well deserved...and may have even been a bit low. While the judges handling the communication caption need to open their eyes, it was good seeing the brass judge give a small hornline the placement the crowd knew it had earned. Lots of good shows given by everyone and it is clear to see the hard work being put in. Hope to see an even better show from everyone in a few weeks!

Tom, I could not disagree more. Corps size has much more involved than number of members. What if a corps does not have enough horns for that addiitonal member? What if the corps is not in an area where they are "in the middle of nowhere" but in an area where there are 5 or more corps wihtin 3 hours' distance? What if the practice facilities available to a program can only handle a Class A size group? This list of examples could fill a book. As Govies (and others) clearly showed, Class A is NOT inferior to Open. THAT midset is the problem, IMO, with DCA right now. Number of members does NOT equal quality, no matter what the judges try to say otherwise. A Class A corps, if trained right and programmed right, SHOULD be able to compete successfully against the Readings and MBIs of the world. Not in DCA, that's for sure...that has been made clear. "Small corps, small score" is alive and well...rewarding quantity not quality. Think about the corps of old...where there were corps on every corner...did they all have 128 members? Not according to MY memory. Now think about our reality today: would the activity have more support and members with 10 128 member corps...or 30 42 member corps with the ability to grow,especially in this economy? How many shows could the 30 do as opposed to the 10? How many more areas can be exposed to this activity? Class A is NOT the "ugly stepchild" of DCA as you are suggesting: dreaming in a corner "Oh maybe one day I can "go to the big dance" like my attractive big sister." You stated "strive to improve", where I think you meant "the drive to grow". As I said above, quantity does not equal quality. If the organization cannot recognize that a Govies can beat a Reading in quality, then maybe different sheets ARE needed. Personally, I think it's a mental shift from "bigger is better" to "quality is better". Note that I'm not saying Govies SHOULD have beaten Reading this year...but they stepped on the field knowing there is no way in the world DCA would allow them to beat Reading or ANY of the "big 5" no matter HOW good they got (individual judges aside since there were one or two that had the guts to do it). If you want a minimum number, establish it. If you want quality, reward it.

Reading went there in 1998 AND 1999. Not sure another corps would pick it up.

Tom, I was not referring to ordinals as much as numbers and spreads. If indeed DCA likes two Music Effect judges to be so opposed to each other in the exact same show watching the exact same performance, then that only confirms the belief that Effect is a) designed by DCA to be a crap shoot not depending on the performers on the field, but the identity of the judge in the box, and/or b) there is no real objective criteria for a caption set (both effects and communication) that takes up 50% of the sheet. If DCA truly believes its Class A champs were closer to the LAST place corps in percussion than the top, then maybe I need to retake some courses on the subject. There used to be somehting called "the value of a tenth"...maybe it doesn't exist anymore...

There were one or two in Prelims in Class A that, were I Carolina, Govies or Fusion, would have me calling DCA headquarters. There were comments earlier about "no, no way one judge would call a show", but it sure looks like that was attempted in prelims. When top ten is in play and the dollars that come from that, DCA should take a close look at irregularities.

Congrats to all the corps tonight. Special shout out to the history makers: MBI, Govies and Fusion. Tomorrow promises to be a barn burner!

As of now, I think it is just 2...unless I have my scores list wrong...

Nope...today.

I will not disagree with you one bit there...in fact, I think there have been quite a few instances of "Small corps, small number" this year with quite a few judges, and not just in percussion. It is an issue I would think needs to be addressed for the sake of the organization.

So you see nothing interesting about a corps going from being 24 points up on another corps in a caption in one show and, 12 hours later, being 3 points down? I'm just imagining that happening in the junior circuit what the reacions would be... I don't know percussion well enough to know whether the Saturday spread/placement or the Sunday spread/placement is accurate. Nor is this an attempt to tear down or build up the drum line of either organization...which is why I am not really discussing the scores themselves. I am more interested in the 12-hour variance (or, as someone earlier called the possibility: "subliminal cleaning") If two different judges can have that different of a read, aren't the contests then less about how the performers do and more about what judges are on the panel? If I were those corps, I know who I'd be fighting for to be on the finals panel!

So let's take that thought and let’s look at another of the (many) interesting developments (to me anyway) from over the weekend: Percussion Saturday - Scranton Fusion 77 79 156 Bush 74 75 149 Cabs 88 85 173 Hurcs 91 90 181 Sunday - Secaucus Fusion 86 84 170 Bush 81 86 167 Cabs 81 83 164 Hurcs 90 94 184

Lots of fun stuff this weekend!

Maybe in Open (and I stress the "maybe"), but how about in Class A? Is there still little doubt?

I will CERTAINLY agree and echo your call to have the brass judge upstairs! For percussion, where they need to see stick/mallet heights and placements, etc, it makes sense to have a field judge, but for brass, the entire goal of the brass line is to have a balanced, cohesive sound at the audience/box level. If there is going to be only one brass judge, s/he should be in the box (or, preferably, OUTSIDE the box, since a box can cuase all sorts of sound distortions!) Hopefully, this is one of the adjustments DCA will make next year as it fine tunes the new judging system!

Jeff, I did not say they were perfect. I said that I felt, and the crowd around me agreed, that Bush and Fusion were not rewarded for the performance they gave. Just my opinion, and the opinion of those around me. What did you think of Bush's and Fusion's performances on Saturday?

I posted this on another thread, but is also appropriate here: In a broad sense, your points are valid, that scores can go up or down from show to show depending on the conditions. However, from actually ATTENDING the show and WATCHING every corps, I can tell you that the initial question is valid. Bush had an excellent show given their numbers and programming. The rain seemed to have little effect on them. Fusion absolutely threw down musically on Saturday. Even with the downpour around us, we in the crowd reacted enthusiastically to their performance. The people around me in the stands who watched each show agreed with me that they were, quite simply, not rewarded for that performance. I’d love to hear from others that attended the show to see if they felt the same as the people that sat around me.

In a broad sense, your points are valid, that scores can go up or down from show to show depending on the conditions. However, from actually ATTENDING the show and WATCHING every corps, I can tell you that the initial question is valid. Bush had an excellent show given their numbers and programming. The rain seemed to have little effect on them. Fusion absolutely threw down musically on Saturday. Even with the downpour around us, we in the crowd reacted enthusiastically to their performance. The people around me in the stands who watched each show agreed with me that they were, quite simply, not rewarded for that performance. I'd love to hear from others that attended the show to see if they felt the same as the people that sat around me.

No flames from me Irish...I do think one corps got the very short end of the numbers stick last night at Kingston...just didn't think it was Cabs... I fully expected a number of marching members to go down because of poor traction, but I don't remember seeing any. Congrats to ALL marching members for performing in, shall we say, less than ideal conditions!

DCA subsidizes the DCA South winner? The DCA Midwest winner? The DCA West winner? I didn't realize the 4 regions even HAD regional championships... I must have missed that on the DCA page.

Would it not make more sense to have a DCA East, South, Midwest and West as opposed to trying to copy what DCI does? For a weekend activity, especially in this economy, one major trip a year is more than enough, and way more than some corps can afford. So regionalize it. Build the 4 circuits, with the winners (top 3, whatever) getting prize money/subsidies to travel to a championships. Looking at the audiences that attend the shows, especially the average age and direct corps association, however, I think DCA has a bigger problem than "XXX corps travels and XXX corps does not". Taking this last show as an example, who wants to take their family to a 100 degree stadium, paying $25+ a ticket, to see 5 competing corps and a few exhibitions? What's the marketing scheme and who's the target audience? THOSE questions are more important to the health of DCA, not who can or should travel where... Bucs can go on a nationwide tour every year, and the fundamnetal problems will still exist. Fix those problems, grow a true fan base for the activity instead of parents and vets, and the rest will handle itself.

Thanks for your review for those of us that could not be there! If it is any consolation (or support), your thoughts on the corps and their relative placements mirror what my friends who attended the show thought should have happened that night. The only thing they added was to also say that it was obvious the heat was messing with almost every corps. Applause to ANYONE who was out in that heat working!

I guess no one really attended this show, since there was really no report or review as to how the corps did. I know they ran out of water around intermission, so maybe the fans just melted into the seats...

That also supports my conclusion: Conclusion: Size matters to the audience and the judges. Loud matters to the audiences and judges. Quality falls well behind these two. If DCA wants to continue this trend, then it should outlaw all corps under, say 90 members, and work on developing max-size corps. If DCA truly cares about quality, it should promote and reward quality with their judges and audiences regardless of size.