Cleveland1

Thank you so much, i have always wanted to do this. I will save this! My random bit of trivia, fact check me if you can or want to. The only corps to finish second or lower, due to penalties (as in would have won without penalties). 78 Phantom Regiment lost to SCV, back when rifle drops were deductions. SCV dropped none, Phantom dropped i believe 7. edit

Vanguard why? Music selection was perfect, many have said it was the most beautiful ballad of the season Drill was challenging, but meaningful. lots of symbols, some obvious others not. got back to the V, did viper up until the end of the season. The VANGUARD YELL was back, finally The show itself was emotional, but not in your face about it. the story was good to watch, and if you knew where to look there was a lot of cool things going on. The percussion was great, as is the usual for a rennick group. Not to say that other shows weren't amazing, they all were. But because im a SCV fan first, i will give them the edge here.

Santa clara vanguard 1989 show in Ohio Stadium

Just because i like SCV does not mean that i have anything against Phantom. A lot of what happened in 2009 had to do with the "honeymoon" of phantom winning in 2008. If i remember correctly..... Phantom won percussion in 2008. In 2009 when they finished in 9th, their percussion finished in fifth. WHY!!! WHY!!! And even then, there music as a whole finished better than the Blue Stars and Boston. WHY!! WHY!! execution was why. Now they are without shaw, without rennick. their percussion went from elite, to... 7th. the corps itself finished 5th. WHYY WHYYY I'm not saying phantom is going to take a hit just because SCV now has rennick and shaw, and the bluecoats brass team. I'm saying it because i see SCV improving their design team, while i see Phantom's getting worse. Is it set in stone that phantom will drop, no. But unless you know something, everyone is expecting it. and this only a bad thing if all you care about is phantom winning. Regardless phantom will put out a great show, the kids gain a lot of experience, etc. Once again, i don't hate Phantom, i don't dislike Phantom. I love a lot of their shows. will they have a great season? yes. Pretty much every corps has a great season, will they win? I would bet against that. will they drop in position? I would bet so. and that is the point.

rumors? what rumors are you referring to. The "rumor" that in shaw left phantom? The point of this thread, phantom is going to take a hit, how big of a hit? anyone saying that phantom will finish 5th or better in 2012 must know something that no one else knows. While Phantom is falling, corps like SCV are right there and improving. and these changes are how DCI as a whole changes over the years.

That, my friend, is called a trend.

I don't agree, there are a few corps that we can expect to drop, or rise. Most people would say that scv, madison, and crown will improve And most people would say that phantom, cavies, and possibly bluecoats, will drop. You know that each category is not isolated. Music design imacts visual, and so on.

Don't kid yourself, Herbert is the Guard Staff. Everyone else is just an avatar that he plays from time to time.

I guess it would depend on the type of emotion they are trying to capture. They will never capture the same emotion that they had last season, and that isn't a bad thing. Regardless if Madison is "Madison" people will cheer, people will get on their feet, without the emotional connection of ESOM. Look at 2010 for example, the return of Madison.

I feel that phantom will take a hit. how far they drop depends on how the competition steps up. SCV has improved, so one would assume that phantom will fall to 6 at least. We saw phantom's percussion last year tank HARD from the year before. 1st place percussion to 5th place? I wonder hhow much further they will fall with even less holding them up. Will they fall out of the first disc depends on how Bloo recovers from losing their entire brass staff to SCV, and how Boston does with their additions. It is likely that Phantom will fall to anywhere between 6 and 8th place, although i would not be wholly surprised if they do fall further than that.

Most seasons there are clumps of corps grouped together among the top 12. Since i don't want to predict placement exactly, i will try and predict the different tiers or clumps. First tier: Cadets, BD, Crown Second Tier: SCV, Cavies Third Tier: Bloo, Boston, Phantom Fourth Tier: Madison, BK Glassmen Fifth Tier: Blue Stars, and just missing the cut, troopers, spirit, and crossmen

If they want an emotional connection with the audience, i wouldn't suggest it. If they want the fans on their feet, then sure, why not.

Will do! and of course not, indianpolis is warm enough in august!

I was hesitant to go to Allentown, an 8 hour drive and what not. Boo's article convinced me to go. And then it turned into a 10 day DCI trip that starts in allentown and ends in indianapolis.

No, a lot has changed and I think it is unheard of for a good reason now a days. Unless it fits with the design of the show, i think it won't help them. The song was beautiful, and it should stay in their tribute show to 9/11 Should they put malaguena on the field next year? YES

BD wins because they usually have one of the easiest books every season, and they draw talented players because of their name and success. You can have a challenging book, but if you don't have the players it will sound bad. (SCV 2010) You can have a poor show in general, but with great players they can do well (BD 2011) For amazing shows its always a combination of great design and musicianship, look at phantom 2008 Long story short, you don't have to be amazing in order to win every year. you just have to know how to play the game. Don't put something out there that is too challenging for the corps, if your end goal is to win at all costs. A good design team can make or break the year.

Madison is being Madison. As the other guy said, im thinking that BK is a better comparison. They have new brass, and a new percussion, they are a young corps and have enthusiastic membership. I hope a lot of the kids choose to stay with them and push into the top 6 in the near future. i can always dream.

I am more excited for their new percussion guy! Lets see what BK can do this year! top 8?

The idea of having Fiedler and Gaines reunited is not outlandish. Much more likely than Rennick and Shaw coming back together...and we saw what happened there.

This is how drum corps changes. The idea that a person has to stay in one place for their entire career, especially if it was already a top program, is a lie. Each has their reasons for leaving, whether it is for a new opportunity to try new things musically or visually, or simply wanting to work with people that you know, again.

Hm. Well good luck boston! I love the shows, I hope the fun continues.

Strict enough to allow spirit of atlanta's pit to use his music from inception as a warmup. Any chance we see gladiator? It depends, is 4 years too soon for phantom to do gladiator after spartacus?

The vanguard seems to be fixing those problems. What's better than bringing in a strong middle guy, and people from a contra heavy corps? Shaw will also not ignore any strong trumpets either. Their music the last 2 years have been hella challenging, should be many returning members. we saw their percussion improve a lot with rennick, now it should be exciting to see how they can do when it all comes together. They should definitely be back in the top 3 soon.

Bluecoats: inception. Although I heard spirit's FE warming up with "time", I think it suits the bluecoats style much more. They have the power to do it. Vanguard: with the new additions, all I can think of is a powerful SCV show. Essentially the opposite of 99. Pure power, as in a show titled "Gods of War" featuring music like mars, o fortuna, and selections from the god of war series. Blue knights: after Europa and an english folk, now they will have an african themed show. Not necessarily lion king, but the same type of music. Very tribal. Madison: I don't know how they follow up their show from this year. After 2 very exciting shows, they might do another drum corps fan's dream shows. So look out for that. Cadets: after a year where the corps is at war with itself, they will continue that idea and do either american revolution or cicil war music. Just some thoughts.

I would love for that to happen, although I would imagine the big tribute show would be on the 50 year anniversary. But the direction they are taking doesn't seem to mesh with their older music, unless they do phantom again. The problem with doing classic shows is that they will be competing with memories, and memories are always better than they actually were (more or less). Remember vanguard 92?