doublc

The first time I met Sandra Opie was at Soprano I&E in Birmingham in 1980. I was 13 years old & scared to death. My fondest memory of that day was the fact that after I performed, she gave me what amounted to a 15-minute private lesson, which I thought was just the coolest thing ever! The first time I met George Zingali was the night of finals in Birmingham, also in '80. I wanted a good seat to see all of the Big Boys, so I decided to sit in the aisle on the 50, about 3/4 of the way up in the lower stands. When 27th came on, this crazy guy came running up the stairs & parked himself right behind me. Before they started, this nut leaned down over my shoulder and said, "Watch close, sonny, you're in for quite a show!" He was right. 3 years later, when I went to Garfield, I reminded him of this encounter from 3 years prior. For those that knew George, he let out his trademark Zingali cackle, and said, "Believe it or not, I do remember that!" Pretty cool stuff!

All 3 of my kids were exposed to drum corps at a very early age, as I used to take them with me to Surf rehearsals from the time they were about 8 years old. My oldest son and my daughter were both woodwind players, so marching wasn't really in the cards for them, but my younger son, Ryan, marched with Surf from 2001-2010. For those of you who had kids march, I'm sure you'll agree with me that there was no greater pleasure in the world than seeing your child step out on the field! For me, it went even further, because I also had the opportunity to teach my son for 7 of his 10 years.

I just posted this on the semifinals thread, but figured I'd put it up here for anyone who has already moved on from last night: A question about corps' pre-show announcements.... Has anyone else noticed that Mr. Crocker announces the Cadets differently? For any corps not from the state of Pennsylvania: "Drum Corps International is proud to present...." For The Cadets: "DCI is proud to present..." And last night, he didn't show title, either. A trivial thing to be sure - not looking for black helicopters on the horizon, not forming any conspiracy theories. I simply find it curious if anyone else has noticed.

A question about corps' pre-show announcements.... Has anyone else noticed that Mr. Crocker announces the Cadets differently? For any corps not from the state of Pennsylvania: "Drum Corps International is proud to present...." For The Cadets: "DCI is proud to present..." And last night, he didn't show title, either. A trivial thing to be sure - not looking for black helicopters on the horizon, not forming any conspiracy theories. I simply find it curious if anyone else has noticed.

Has this happened since 1983? Blue Devils won prelims (tied with Cadets), SCV won semis, Cadets won finals. 1983 was the first year of prelims/quarters/semis/finals, and the previous year's finalists were automatically seeded into semifinals. SCV won semis, and BD & Garfield tied for 2nd. Though it didn't happen in '83, it is an interesting trivia question!

Question for anyone who is at the stadium: Are the mic issues that are coming across on the live feed happening in the stadium as well? A whole lot of inaudible/muddy vocals & narration. Is it a mic placement issue with the telecast, or is it the same in the stadium?

It's clear that the Crossmen brass staff is working really hard at ensuring that the brass play with great control, and it's working very well for them-they have a great top-to-bottom blend throughout the show. At this point, they need to pick 2-3 spots to just completely UNLEASH. If they do, the show won't feel quite so sterile, and they'll have the audience eating out of the palm of their hand!

The thing I've always appreciated most about all my years of drum corps experience was learning the "folklore". If you look at the bio below my posts, you can see that for the most part, I made my bones in drum corps as it began to evolve into what it has now become. However, I did have the opportunity to either be taught by, or teach with, some of the "next generation drum corps characters" who had personal encounters and stories about some of the true legends. Those storytelling sessions, and learning the true history of the (pre-DCI) activity were always some of my fondest moments. As a result, I've always been tickled to come across kids that march today that are eager to hear the stories & learn the TRUE history of the activity, because they understand that the history of drum corps does indeed go back a little further than 1990. There aren't nearly enough of that type these days, and I believe that that's what has made This Thing Of Ours so vanilla! Keep the stories coming - I'm completely hooked!!!

I LOVE THIS KIND OF HISTORY!!!!!!!! If there's more, keep it coming....I don't care if I'm the only one interested! Tony Schlecta seems to be quite the significant character in pre-DCI history. I've read everything written about him in the history books, and gotten bits & pieces sitting around the campfire over the years, but it sounds as though the stories about the man go MUCH deeper than what one can find in print! For those "in the know", you have a rapt audience sitting here.....enlighten me!!!

I've heard bits of several different stories about how corps would use loopholes in the wording of the rules for Short Shows to their competitive advantage. If I'm not mistaken, a corps doing this was what led (at least in part) to the infamous I. C. Reveries "Starting Line Sitdown" at VFW Nats in 1966. Knowing that they're are a great many DCP followers who are much more "seasoned" that I, I would love it if there's anyone out there who could share a story or 2 such as this. SO much more fascinating to me than the pro/con debates about amplification and narration!

The first show I ever marched was at the World Open in 1977, and they were still doing the Short Show for prelims. I remember this, not only because it was my first-ever field show, but also because my corps had not yet learned the concert. Thank god we weren't good enough to make finals, because we would've gotten about a 10-point undertime penalty! The next time I was at the World Open was in 1981, and by then, they had abandoned the Short Show. Still a fun memory to discuss with today's youth. You talk about inspections, short shows & concert numbers, and they look at you like you have lobsters coming out of your ears!!

Lindap, From a personal/family standpoint, there's a fitting bit of symmetry to your dates. The last time you saw modern drum corps (1983), was my first year marching World Class, and the next time (2010) was my son's last year. Enjoyed the picture-even though the kids are teeny, I can see mine :). Thanks!

He's definitely blessed with the "family face", however, I can still take him in a fight (as long as it lasts 5 minutes or less!!)

After 10 years on DCP, it seems that most of us have purged our scrapbooks and are running out of archival pictures. Having said that, I'm going to take the opportunity to be a little self-indulgent and perhaps take this thread in a different direction at the same time. For those of us who have been involved in This Thing Of Ours, we've shared stories and spoken at length about the joy we've gotten from our experience. Because the drum corps experience has become such an integral part of who we are and who we've become, it's only understandable that we would want to share that experience with our children. My little boy, Ryan (he's not so little anymore - 26), decided that he wanted to become a trumpet player like his old man. At the time, I was still on staff with Surf, so he spent the majority of his summers as a young boy getting a taste of the drum corps experience. Going into the 2001 season, Mother & I decided that Ryan was old enough to give marching a shot, so he became a member of the Jersey Surf brass section. For the majority of the next 10 years (taking the occasional season off to earn $$$ for college), I got to watch my little boy grow up in the activity. I know that I'm not alone in saying that it's entirely possible that the pride, pleasure and satisfaction I got from watching my son march may have very well exceeded the pleasure I got from the 30+ years I was involved myself. Anyone else out there have pictures or stories to share? Here are mine: 2001 He's the little guy, 3rd from the left 2005 Front & center, after Div. II Finals 2007 2010 - Ageout year We all have scrapbooks of our kids during the formative years. For me, having one like this that bears so many similarities to the ones my folks kept for me as a kid can't be topped for me!

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This page hasn't been awake in a little while, so I figured I'd give it a bump. Some pics from 1988: Dutch Boy

I'm really happy to see the lively discussion that has arisen from my OP. On its surface, I was simply musing about score disparity that occurred once upon a time that never occurs anymore, and the most logical explanation would be how the execution judges plied their craft. In the Stone Age, and execution judge's tools of the trade were simply a judging sheet, a clipboard, and a pen. No tape recorders for the tick judges. In many cases (I'm not sure how frequently - if there are any Old Tyme judges in the audience, they might be able to shed some light on this), the tick was put on the sheet without explanation, simply a tick. However, I've also seen X sheets from BITD where the judge would specify the offense, i.e., "Tenor, roll release, drum solo." If an instructor had a taste for conspiracy theory, it would be easy to say, "15 more ticks than last night? Judge so-and-so just had it in for us tonight!" With evolution came the tape recorder, and more accountability. Judges could then describe the nature of the tick in real time, but the question of what was acceptable and what was a tick never really went away. Back in the '80s, I taught with some former judges who judged during the tick era, and more than once, I listened to stories about what they would call "D&R Shows", with "D&R" standing for "Dump & Run". Without wanting to read into such a description, it's hard not to read into such a description. I also remember having a conversation with an old DCA judge who judged back in the '70s, when DCA corps tended to play with a certain....shall we say.....enthusiasm. I asked him about how he would evaluate that approach, and his response was, "Sometimes, it gets so loud that you just let the ticks go right on by." As with the modern system, it would be impossible for a judge to not allow personal taste or school of technical thought to not creep into an evaluation, even on a subconscious level. Method of attack, method of release, and all of the other basics of technique could be interpreted very differently from Judge A to Judge B.....just like they can be today. However...because the OP was simply about wild swings in scores from night to night, let me give you one more that DIDN'T involve ticks.... 1973 DCI Prelims Hawthorne Muchachos GE M&M - 9.1 (5th) GE Perc - 9.1 (2nd) GE Brass - 9.1 (8th) Total GE - 27.3 (3rd) 1973 DCI Finals GE M&M - 8.9 (8th) GE Perc - 8.1 (7th) GE Brass - 8.7 (8th) Total GE - 25.7 (9th) 1.6 lost in total GE overnight (1 point in percussion alone). A big reason why they dropped from 5th overall in prelims to 8th in finals. As I said in my OP: What does it all mean? Not a heckuva lot. However, it does make for interesting discussion!

Like many of the "old-timers" (a membership of which I definitely include myself) that peruse these boards, I was involved in This Thing Of Ours through DCI's evolution away from the tick system. I will never dispute the intelligence in doing away with ticks, as what this did for the emergence of creativity, artistry & risk-taking can never be measured. However, as somebody who has loved reading the recaps since I was a little little boy, the one thing that was eliminated was the WILD swings a corps could encounter from one caption to another, from one night to the next. One of the "historical factoids" that has become part of drum corps lore is that of the 1977 Oakland Crusaders winning percussion at prelims while not making finals. In looking through some of the recaps from the earlier DCI prelims, I've found a few more interesting little nuggets: The 1972 Madison Scouts had a perfect Music Analysis score at prelims, but didn't make finals (14th). The 1972 Bleu Raeders were 14th in marching, 15th in brass, and 13th in GE. The strength of a 7th place finish in percussion (combined with Garfield's 1.8 penalty) helped them get into the Night Show. The 1973 Argonne Rebels were 17th in marching, 22nd in drums, 14th in GE, and 1st in Brass!! The 1973 Osage Precisionaires were 39th in percussion with a 9.4 out of 20, but finished 2nd in GE percussion with a 9.1. Their GE drum score (worth half as much) almost equalled their total execution score. The 1974 Muchachos finished 1st in GE, 3rd in drums, 7th in brass, and 18th in marching. Overnight, they jumped to 6th in marching and 2nd in brass. The 1975 Polish Falcon Cadets finished 5th in drums and 32nd in brass. Must've made for some interesting musical ensemble rehearsals! The 1979 Crossmen were a legit Top-6 corps that didn't make finals. It never occurred to me until reading the recap that the .4 penalty they got in prelims could've been as much of a reason for not making the Night Show as anything (.3 separated 11-13 at prelims that year). If they had been penalty-free, they would've been in. 1980 Santa Clara: People reacted to watching a show where the primary focus was taken "off the 50 yard line" in a manner I've always imagined similar to the first viewing of Stravinsky's "Rite Of Spring" in Paris, 1913. 'THIS IS THE RUINATION OF DRUM CORPS!!!" As a 13-year old kid, I thought is was wicked cool!! As all of the historians know, this was the first season in the DCI era that SCV dropped out of the Top 3, but yet, with the "destruction of the marching art" as we knew it, their 2 highest-scoring captions that year were M&MX (4th), and M&M GE (4th). So...what does all of this mean? Not a heckuva lot, but I've found this kind of stuff interesting!

I like getting to revive the old threads! Just found this one, and wanted to chip in a couple of terms unique to This Thing Of Ours: Short Show. First field show in which I ever marched was a Short Show (1977 World Open prelims) Color Pre - usually took you into Concert Dry & Wet runthroughs Arc it up Ensemble rehearsal And everybody's favorite.....Bring It In!

I believe that picture was taken at the 1986 Grand Prix at Rutgers University. 29 years has put a coating of haze over the details, but I'm pretty sure that was the Grand Prix

I just stumbled upon this old thread, and wanted to contribute my own $.02... I joined the Crossmen brass staff in the fall of '88, and our brass equipment inventory at the time could be best described as a "bugle smorgasbord ". We had a little bit of everything: the silver & brass DEGs, silver horns, chrome horns, you name it, we were playing on it. From a visual standpoint, the look was rather unsightly, as you'd see about 10 different colors of bell finish when the horns were up. Mike Dennis, the mastermind behind the Yamaha Tuba /Contra conversion horns that the Crossmen introduced in '88, got a really good deal on white lacquer (I believe it cost the corps none dollars), and decided that, for the sake of uniformity, he would use this white lacquer to make the horns create some semblance of visual uniformity. The horns definitely looked strange, but we were able to field 54 horns that looked equally strange (the mellophones always reminded me of a dentist's spittoon: wide, white porcelain bowl that tapered down to a narrow drain). Best judge's reaction to the white bells: Don Hill judging GE Brass, seeing the corps for the first time. If you remember the '89 show, it started with a short drum feature, so the horns were down for the first 15-20 seconds. Horns snap up for the opening brass statement, and Don says, "Cool! Sousaphones!!" One of the funnier moments!

If you look closely, the "weapons" of which you speak are......white plastic clarinets. Granted, a clarinet in improper, untrained hands.......... Not wanting to offend the clarinet-playing community (one of which being my oldest son), I'll save my 10 minutes of clarinet jokes for Open Mic Night at The Chuckle Hut ;)