Rifuarian

I wish it were otherwise, but I'm afraid you're wrong on all counts. DCI is absolutely correct in taking this sort of thing seriously.

Are we completely certain it's the audio samples that are causing the problem? I know that's been confirmed for the Cadets, but what about the other corps? Several of these groups played music that might be problematic . . . Spirit and Cavies playing Lady Gaga, for example.

Since drum corps are private organizations they're a lot less vulnerable to this sort of thing than marching bands. We have people on hear all the time making petty, inane complaints. Phantom Regiment is too violent! Cadets guard uniforms were taken from a violent movie! Marc Sylvester is wearing a Che Guevara t-shirt! Etc. None of it effects the corps in any way whatsoever. But when you get schools, "children", and local media involved it doesn't take much to raise a stink. What's amazing is that this doesn't happen more often. I'm from an extremely conservative area and I've seen a blue billion of these Russian shows, some complete with pictures of Lenin, Stalin, and the whole gang. Never heard one complaint. I guess most of the people who might complain are usually at the concessions stand during halftime. Shame that the band director buckled to this one crackpot. Of course the hammer and sickle has sweet ####-all to do with Stalin as it predates his raise to power. Not at all the same as the swastika which was very much integral to Hitler's ideology. Though if the band really wanted to depict 1917 then they'd use the hammer and plow which was more prevalent during the actual Revolution.

I've always wanted to see corps play around with the any-key rule. Not a whole hornline, of course (though I'd kill to hear one of today's top hornlines on C and G instruments) but solos, small ensembles, things like that. But it won't happen. The switch to any-key was never an artistic decision. It was a business one.

For some reason it's always been a sore point among some former marchers. I know I used to roll my eyes when this subject came up. Then it came time for me to take my baby sister to her first audition camp and my "fun" memories of drum corps suddenly transformed into horrific visions of gross moral impropriety. I can only imagine what it might be like for a parent. Not that my sister hadn't seen any of that before, of course, what with four years of high school and a few months of college under her belt. I was still uneasy, though. The corps I marched did not have the healthiest or safest environment, and had many irresponsible if well-meaning adults on staff (a lot of trouble can come from young staff members who have difficulty separating themselves from the marchers). That was ten years ago, but the corps itself is gone. And of course the stories from earlier days of drum corps would certainly raise some parent's eyebrows. Tales of tour pregnancies (okay, that can still happen) and snorting various substances off snare heads. But the times are different and drum corps seems to have changed with society, for better or for worse. The corps I took my sister to is very well run. I did all the first-time parent stuff to report back to mom and dad (got some funny looks before I explained myself). One of the best things was talking with parents of current marchers, which I thought was a pretty neat idea. Really took a load of my mind. I'm sure the situation varies from group to group, but corps today seem to be very responsible when these matters are concerned. Slip-ups occur from time to time, and there are a few rotten apples out there, but in general corps are pretty conscientious. Both out of a concern for marchers and a concern for litigation. The best thing to do is to make sure you have a well-behaved kid who knows the basic difference between right and wrong. Drum corps performers are by nature like this, for the most part. You don't make it far if you're not hard-working and responsible. But they are kids, even the "adults" among them, and they will behave like kids. It's inevitable, especially in a stressful, high pressure environment like a summer tour. Corps do have a responsibility to keep things within reasonable limits in order safeguard the corps and its members. Put any questions or concerns you might have to the corps. If they don't have time to answer you, then don't send your kid and your money to that corps. Above all, talk to other drum corps parents. They can offer a wealth of information and some peace of mind to boot. Edit: I'll say that the biggest safety concern in drum corps today has nothing to do with sex, drugs, or alcohol. It's the long-term health of the members. In general we are very responsible nowadays when it comes to the short term health of marchers, but I still feel that long term health concerns are sometimes ignored. Skin problems, joint problems, eye issues, and (above all) hearing issues that can crop up decades down the road are often overlooked.

The "no alcohol" stuff is mostly a CYA by the corps. When you keep 150 young people in close quarters for an entire summer they're going to act like young people and there's only so much the corps can do to keep it in check. It's inevitable. That said, in keeping with the rest of society, corps are much more responsible and strict about these sorts of things than they used to be. But again there's only so much they can do. It's very tempting to publicly name and shame in these situations, and sometimes it can be effective. But it also opens you up comments from posters like ContraJohn and subjects your daughter to further embarrassment. The Troopers are venerable and highly-respected organization, and people will defend from what they see as anonymous slander. That's the nature of a public forum. Best take things up with the corps and maybe DCI first. Take legal action if you feel it's necessary, though I'm going to hazard a guess and say that'll be a non-starter. Treat DCP as your very, very last resort.

I know this is off the topic - not that that matters any more - but I've always found the idea that DCP is "tiny" or "irrelevant" when compared to the total audience. With nearly 30,000 members and about 2500 regular posters (people with 100+ posts) And those regular posters are pretty representative. You have current marchers, prospective marchers, alumni, progressives, traditionalists, marchers, band kids, staffers, parents, and so on. The sky-is-falling DCI killed drum corps types get a lot of the attention, but they're really a small portion of DCP. DCP itself is very much representative of the drum corps community.

No, it's definitely about dada, rather than being dada. If it were dada it would actively flaunt the conventions of drum corps (as defined by judges and designers, not necessarily the fans)instead of embodying them. A truly Dada BD would do something like sneak off from Indy and play their finals performance in an empty Camp Randall stadium. That sort of thing. I guess there's still time for that happen. I love it though. Every bit.

This is very important. There's not much doubt concerning what BD's show is supposed to be about . . . if only because they tell us! Now I don't know where the "Marcel paints a Moustache" and "Gertrude writes a play" stuff fits in, but that may just be intentionally meaningless. Maybe. The basic idea comes across. As much as I love Crown's show, I have no idea what the hell is going on while watching it. Not really a problem for me, as I don't generally care about themes, but when it comes to GE that is a problem. There is a hilariously vague "description" and flashy video on their website, but these seem to have little relevance to the actual show. Doubtless the judges have been filled over the course of the season about what the cubes mean and so forth. Still, their presentation of the ideas behind their show remains very clumsy compared to BD (IMO, of course) and this does hurt them.

No, it doesn't take a week. When I was at finals in 2008 the conspiracy talk began as soon as scores were announced, right there in the stands.

It's bone dry down here in Bloomington! If the roof gets blown off they're welcome to have semis and finals here again . . . the storms always seem to miss us and hit Indy.

I was just about to ask the same thing. An earlier post had a score for Spirit from the DCI.org, but now it seems like DCI has taken that score down. What gives?

You can still watch all the prelims performances up to Pacific Crest for free on the Fan Network. Just go to 5:55 for Jersey Surf. Bridgemania was absolutely one of my favorite shows of the season.

When you're out on tour you quickly find out that most corps believe there are one or two or more judges that hold "grudges" or are "out to get them". Usually it's the marchers, volunteers, and . . . simpler members of the staff that believe this sort of thing. Though sometimes people who should know better by into it as well. DCI judging can be flawed, but it's not corrupt. Those are two very different things.

I can remember George explaining the 2006 show by saying that he believed a corps should push boundaries and try new things after winning a championship. Which, I think, is respectable. The general for championship corps is to develop a formula and use it until they completely run out of steam. Not so the Cadets of the past decade. I do like 12.25. It's a good, not great show. The best route (competitively speaking) might have been a more serious, minimalist take on Christmas. The sledding, the guard uniforms, the sound clips, Jingle Bells, etc. look goofy to the eyes of many, and sadly there's this notion among fans and judges alike that a show has to be s00per cereal in order to be championship worthy. Personally I don't mind goofiness on the field. It just seems that in this instance they might have been better off if they had toned things down. Which is interesting, because I thought the 2011 show could have gone much further with the concept and used a little more humor (obviously this advice is unnecessary!).

Hey! I've seen the Hoosiers almost win a lot of football games in that stadium!

No, they couldn't. $75 million dollar roof . . . with no drainage, and no weatherproofed electronics. The roof has been opened for about 20 Colts home games since 2008. They're not as reluctant to open it as some seem to think, but they'll only do it perfect weather. It would be perfectly plausible for DCI to open the roof for finals, but they won't since even a remote chance of having to close the roof would mean that the corps would play in two very different sound environments.

It is pretty ironic. But to be fair, DCI did not know the roof would end up being a $75 million boondoggle. They weren't terribly happy about it, but then the roof was never a reason for moving to Indy. It was just a selling point. Oh well. Like I said earlier in this thread, the stadium is really quite pleasant with the roof open, even in warm weather. Drum corps fans may be disappointed, but imagine how many taxpayers in the Indy area feel.

St. Elmo's has a great prix fixe lunch on Sundays. At $35 a person it still might not fit into some budgets, but it's a great deal and good way to wrap up finals week. If anyone likes fine dining but isn't into steakhouses, I'd check out Oakley's Bistro. It's not exactly downtown, but IMO it's one of the best restaurants in Indianapolis and beats just about anything you'll find downtown.

If you're not planning on attending prelims, you could check out an Indians game at Victory Field (the game is at 7:05, not 1:30 . . . that's today), which is very close to Lucas Oil. Tickets are cheap and you won't find a nicer ballpark. Get seats on the 3rd base line to stay out of the sun. This was especially awesome when warmups were right across the street at White River State Park, but unfortunately they've been moved elsewhere. DCI fans, as usual, have the bars well-covered! In general the area northeast of Lucas Oil, between Illinois St. and Pennsylvania and stretching north to Monument Circle, is where the bars are centered. Walk around in the area and see what strikes your fancy. Breakfast and lunch often get overlooked in these threads. For lunch I'd like to plug two places just south of Lucas Oil, John's Hot Stews and Shapiro's Deli. These are located in a run down, industrial area so it seems like many fans don't get down there, even though both are very close to the stadium. Some more information about yourself might be helpful: What are your interests? What kind of food do you like? Are traveling alone, with a girlfriend/wife, or with a group of friends? Are you attending all three shows? Regardless, I hope you have a great time! Indy may not be a top vacation spot, but it doesn't deserve the grief it gets from some fans. The only real problem with finals week in Indy is the echoes . . .

One of the problems with all the talk about attracting younger fans (i.e. band kids) is that most of the people who do the talking never really bother to ask the younger fans what attracts them. They simply make assumptions. I've taken hundreds of band kids to drum corps shows and one of the best parts of that experience is hearing what they think about the corps. Like the rest of us, they are mainly attracted to the excellence in brass, percussion, and guard that DCI corps provide. The usual reaction to the electronic stuff is neither like nor dislike . . . it's usually indifference. They don't hate it but it doesn't draw them in. For a long time Cavies were by far and away the most popular corps with "the kids". They're still very popular, but I think you'd disappointed to hear the general reaction among them to 15 Seconds. "The kids" are much more discerning than we give them credit for. All the dubstep in the world won't draw their attention away from subpar performance and design.

I live in the area, have worked some in and around LOS, and attended several events there. There seem to be several misconceptions about the roof that I'd like to clear up. First, it only takes 11 minutes for the roof to open. 4 minutes for the windows. No extensive preparation is needed to open the roof, though they do make the decision at least 90 minutes prior to an event. The entire process performed by a single operator. Second, it is not expensive to open the roof. The energy required to do this is infinitesimal compared to the energy used by the stadium as a whole. Third, LOS does not become an oven with the roof open in warm weather. This is a very large, airy building . . . air circulation is actually pretty good with the roof open. The reason why Lucas Oil is antsy about opening the roof has already been mentioned. You see, Irsay and the Colts begged the Indiana taxpayers for the biggest, most lavish, and most expensive retractable stadium roof in the NFL. Then they decided not to install drainage, or to weatherproof scoreboards, speakers, or screens. There are a lot of taxpayers and fans who are very, very, p####ed off about this particular boondoggle. When it comes to drum corps, there's another reason why the roof is kept close. Corps are designing their shows to work in a particular acoustic environment. They spend all season preparing for it. If DCI decides to open the roof and then has to close it, the roof cannot be reopened according LOS policy. That means that the corps will have played in two very different acoustic environments, which could possible effect the judging. In all honesty this is why DCI keeps the roof closed. Which is too bad, because Lucas Oil would be an almost perfect DC venue if the roof were opened.

I thought they had pulled ahead? BAC and Madison were beating Cavies pretty regularly in the first half the season. Now it seems pretty likely they'll finish above them. Yes, the design team really laid an egg in the off-season, but since the season's started it seems as though they've been working non-stop to turn an epically crappy show into something that's at least palatable to the judges and the fans. As a result a possible 9th or 10th place finish has been turned into a likely 7th place finish (it's not over yet, though). That doesn't seem like much, and I know it's not what we're used to from this corps, but to it's an impressive reminder of the quality and professionalism of the Cavaliers design team and instructional staff. They're still one of the best in the business, 7th (or 8th or 9th) place or not. But should the Cavies be in the top 5 right now? #### no. Next year they will be though. No doubt about it.

This may sound crazy, but hear me out. Is it not possible - however unlikely - that the people complaining about slotting are not the same people complaining about inconsistency? DCP does have over 20000 members, about 2500 of which have more than 100+ posts. With all those members there may be room two separate points of view on this forum. May be.

As opposed to doing a poor job of playing anything else? What's the difference?