up4479

I won't pay for something I don't like. I already stopped doing that this year when I felt I got robbed at a DCA show. I kept my mind open at a DCI show and then knew for sure I got robbed. The third show was a DCI show with 3 of the top 5 and even my father (too many drum corps and brass player credentials to list here) said it "------". I gave away, free for the taking, the 8 tickes I had for the two other shows. I gave up my money but I wouldn't give up my time. We're done. As for the "thousands" I speak about, someone has to speak up for us once in a while considering DCI has ignored us for years and DCP pro band trolls try to make others believe we don't exist. By the way, how's that working out for you? Are DCI corps making more money these days? Are the crowds growing by leaps and bounds? Has anybody within DCI wondered why disbanded drum corps that hold reunions can gather hundreds per event and those of us that actually attend those reunions can find only a small number of people who actually go to drum corps shows? Yea. OK, Mike. You can express your opinions and I'll express mine.

The answer to this question is yes. It was done by tens of thousands of marchers since World War One when the activity really took off and thousands of corps were formed. It was drums and bugles only or drums an brass only if you prefer. That's how it was for decades and yes some of us are still on this forum and most of us no longer actively follow or support the activity because it is no longer drums and bugles only. Personally I only come on to this part of DCP when I get caught up the historical forum where most of us are now. We only see the activity from a historical perspective because we don't like paying to see what drum corps has become today. And no. We're far from being shallow people. We have time and money and most put at least some of it to good use elsewhere helping people who need our help a lot more than a few middle class kids looking for some summer musical adventure. Don't feel bad for us as were a happy, well adjusted and successful bunch who like doing other things these days. I'll go crawl back under my rock now. I just pop up from time to time to remind people that there's thousands of us out here who have put their money where their mouths are and walked away starting with the other rule changes we didn't like. We were careful not to let the door slam on the way out.

If I wanted to see a marching band I'd go to a high school football game.

You know you're a "Fossil" if you remember when... Most corps were really street gangs that played music. If you didn't beat them on the field you beat them off the field. If they left quickly, you beat the judges. When somewhere in the horn line was at least one horn from every known manufacturer because the corps could only afford a new horn when one fell apart and the corps still owed money on the last one so a new vendor had to be found. Most kids could walk to practice from their parents' homes. Practice was at least twice a week, fifty two weeks a year. Many corps didn't have time to "tour" because they had three to five local circuit shows each week. Many large metropolitan areas had three or more local circuits. When you did travel to one of the really big shows with preliminaries you were always amazed at the large number of corps you never heard of and most of them beat you despite your corps being the local circuit champions for several years in a row. Your warm up for the Saturday night show was the afternoon show that same day that was held less than ten miles away. You knew many kids in several other corps because several of the kids you went to school with marched in other corps. You knew without looking who was on the field at the first show of the year because most corps had a signature song (Yup! SONG!) they played year after year. Some of your instructors didn't make your contests because they were marching in a DCA corps and/or judging in another circuit. Not only was the weather literally freezing but your drill got completely confused because you were doing a half time show for the church school football team and you never marched on a field with football markings. "Where's the 50?" All the corps hung around for the scores even if there was no retreat. All the drums fit in a regular van. The horns went on the buses. One set of flags on the field. The honor guard included your championship flags and/or your streamers for each of your championships. Custom, hand painted bass drum heads. These heads were never to be hit with a mallet as bass drummers only used one mallet. Custom covers for the contra bass bells with your corps logo hand applied. Just about ever corps could execute a moving company front and most did at least once per show. You remember when horns manufactured with slip slides were considered cheating. ("Hey! We spent all winter polishing our tuning slides so they could move easily and those rich guys just went out and bought new Getzens. That's not fair!) Every once in a while one of those slip slides would manage to go flying across the field when the horns were snapped up. You knew the contest schedule because it didn't change very much from year to year and you've been with the same corps year after year. You knew most of the judges because you saw the same ones week after week and half of them were your instructors (though not judging you that night) , relatives or relatives of your corps friends. You knew everything there was to know about that night's stadium and it's environs because you marched there at least three times a year. You knew everybody who sat high on the 40 yard line, at least by sight because the same people sat in the same place at each and every show for many years and they called themselves the 40 yard line group. They always cheered wildly for each and every corps and bought every Fleetwood and or Stetson Richmond record there ever was. "On the bus!" "Off the bus!" "Push the bus!"

My corps (Fitchburg Kingsmen) were at the VFW Nationals in Philadelphia in 1969. After Prelims we had a group photo taken. I was there. There was indeed a group photo taken of each corps after their preliminary performance as they waited for their scores. Moe Knox was also there but he was not the photographer taking the group photos. Moe may have taken photos as the corps posed for the other photographer as I did. Nobody said a word to me as I took a photo of the 27th Lancers. I was traveling with them for Nationals. I know that at least one Lancer bought one of the professional photos from that day. I'll try to find out who the photographer was but if the print is not marked on the back, I think we're out of luck. I wish I had a better camera back then but its the best a 12 year old with no money could do.

After being there and comparing photos I think the sideline at the new field is about ten feet further from the stands. The front row of stands is a bit lower than the old Bowl. There are no walls at the ends and the stands are straight and even on the back field. In the new stadium did feel there was less echo from the ends and back field. The corps are still fairly close to the stands. There are many other venues where they are much further away. My dad thought that most corps were not particularly loud and I have to agree. I'm not sure how to compare G lines to Bb lines or if the lines are holding back in preparation for the indoor field at Indy. IMO. It was louder BITD. The different configuration of the venue, the different instruments and not knowing if they were trying to blow the place apart (as was often the case BITD) or were moderating their volume makes it an apples to oranges comparison, IMO. Visually, I think the new stands are a bit steeper and tend to offset the somewhat greater distance to the sideline. IMO, the new and old are about the same for watching. Over all it was a good viewing experience whereas a place like Bristol is not. Put this search string into Google Maps: Manning Field, Lynn, MA. Photo here: http://photos.imageevent.com/up4479/27thla...manningbowl.jpg Photo here: http://photos.imageevent.com/up4479/27thla...ngbowl.ashx.jpg

I started out at about 6 years old learning on my dad's army G bugle. I then joined the Reveries and played a G-D soprano with slip slide. We then bought G-F rotary. Eventually I played a two valve G and for the 1994 27th Lancers I bought a 3 valve Kanstul G. It was all good as far as I'm concerned. Today I have a Getzen G-D with slip slide, a G-D Getzen with two horizontal valves, a three valve Kanstul G, my dad's 1946 Martin Comittee Bb and a 1924 Martin Imperial Bb-A with a positionable rotary for the A crook. I play them all but like my Kanstul three valve G best of all. As a side note to the G vs. Bb debate and the intonation will improve with Bb horns crowd, the 1994 27th Lancers had 23 lead sopranos. We had 23 different horns ranging from valve rotor G-D to three valve G. No two were alike. I think every soprano manufacturer was represented. (The same variety was found in the rest of the horn line.) Jim Wedge was a stickler regarding intonation all the way back to the late 60's. Our lead line had good intonation despite the various horns used because we understood what Jim was looking for and he taught us how to make it happen. Over the years we were not the only G line to have good intonation. IMO, how you play is more important than what you play.

We had a great time Saturday night at the Bean Pot Invitational/Tournament of Drums. It was sponsored by the Beverly Cardinals Alumni. They run a scholarship program and the show has been a successful fund raiser for many years. For the first time, Frank Raffa and his crew was able to host the show at Manning Bowl or more correctly, the new Manning Stadium in Lynn, MA. The old Manning Bowl was host to the World Open and many other drum corps shows over the decades. It was a shrine to thousands of drum corps memories not only for drum corps people from the Boston area, but for the drum corps community at large. Even in it's decrepit state in it's last years, everyone had great memories of performing or watching the best of the best over the years. I first attended a drum corps show at Manning Bowl in 1966 and continued attending shows for decades until the last event was held at the old Manning Bowl. (My family was once deeply involved with Fleetwood Records, Drum Corps News and the World Open.) The old bowl was demolished and a new modern facility was built to replace it. Lynn once again has a fabulous venue for sports and of course, drum corps. All the other issues of the old Manning Bowl have been bulldozed away. Clean, working bathrooms, safe seating, improved parking, better lighting and artificial turf are some of the major improvements. The Mayor of Lynn, Judith Flanagan Kennedy was at the show and personally welcomed drum corps back to Lynn. She seemed genuinely enthused that Manning Stadium would once again host drum corps shows and even stayed to watch the show. I and my family want to thank Mayor Kennedy, her staff and all the other folks from the City of Lynn that helped make this event a success. Hopefully, drum corps has returned to Lynn for many years to come. Thank you Mayor Kennedy. In my opinion, we all should express our gratitude to the mayor through the mayor's Chief of Staff, Claire Cavanagh. To Send An Email ccavanagh@ci.lynn.ma.us <ccavanagh@ci.lynn.ma.us>

http://www.beanman.net/drumcorps.html Watch the video. http://27thlancers.net/download.htm Download MP3 http://www.angelfire.com/bellevilleblackknights/CD.html buy CD

My friends from the Saugus Socialites are having their first ever reunion. They are looking for any audio or video recordings in any format so they can relive and share their memories. Photographs are also wanted. Please respond here, send me a PM or respond to them directly at saugussocialite@aol.com with any leads or information. Thanks for your help.

There were many great moments for me when I marched BITD and there were many great moments as a spectator during those years as well. The best came many years later with 27th in 1994 when we drove the crowd to insanity and I got to perform with some of my childhood heroes, my contemporaries and those that came after me. At no other time in my marching career did I have the privilege of performing with a corps that had 100% of it's members focus 100% of the time for months on end with one goal in mind. The results speak for themselves.

How's this for a booster window decal? One of these days I'll have to start scanning my hundreds of buttons. Then I can start on posters, patches, uniform parts....... iy yi yi. I've got a major museum here.

Here's a bass drum head.

Here's some booster decals for windows. An original and one from 1976.

For all you 27th fans, this is one of the t-shirts from the "Once More in 94" 27th Lancer Alumni Corps.

Remember contra base covers? This is related to the artwork in my avatar.

I seem to remember this as being one of the first pins I can remember of the corps. It's very large and I remember when I first wore it it was huge on my very large chest. K-I-D-D-I-N-G. I will ask a charter member or maybe Steve S's parents - there is a picture of Adelva and Slush (directors of Reveries and co-directors of North Star) with many of these pins on them and behind them. Hi, Nancy. I'm glad to see you back here. The large 27th button was the first followed by a small oval button. Thanks to Slushy, I've been collecting buttons since the early 1960's. I've got hundreds.

Nice job, Mike. I'd like to thank you in particular for your contributions to our efforts to get the word out about George. The fitting accolades and memories are a tribute to George's love of the activity. Its been a tough week for the Lancer (and I.C. Reveries) family. Among ourselves, we've recognized the response from the greater drum crops community. The overwhelming flood of condolences has helped us get through our ordeal. I for one would like to thank everyone. My parents and the Bonfiglios all went to school together. Later, our two families sharing the drum corps experience has been a wonderful, never ending trip through life. Even though our corps have gone, we continue to share through the everlasting relationships with each other, all the kids and the remaining adults that shared the experience with us. I won't get into all the details, but for me one of the hardest things this week was playing Danny Boy outside the funeral home with a group of musicians that included not only Lancers but people from other corps that came together to pay tribute. Its tough to play a soprano while crying. Thank you all. http://www.facebook.com/group.php?v=wall&gid=41783918579

1976 On tour with 27th. We hadn't had a shower in several days. We roll up to a school in Wyoming (?) and a staff member goes in to check things out before letting the kids loose. He comes running out to the buses, "THERE'S SHOWERS!" All the doors and windows on the buses flew open and the buses were evacuated in about 15 seconds. We all run in stripping clothes as we went. A big collective "What the............? " was heard as we realized we were at an elementary school. The shower heads were waist high! We got over that pretty quick but it was hilarious to watch.

IMO, BRASSO has valid points. What Perc2100 and Richard don't seem to understand is despite that fact that there are no records to prove what us old timers have been saying, the lack of records does not mean we are wrong in our assessment. We were there, we lived through those times, we're still in contact with the people were were there with us and the vast majority of them and many of us have left the activity completely for various reasons, not the least of which is that we didn't like what we saw and heard. Its got nothing to do with rose colored glasses and I know we're not full of BS. I should mention that today most of us couldn't care less that many of today's drum corps community denigrate us and discount our opinions. We're OK with it because we were free to keep our wallets closed and walk away without a word and we did. Life's too short to worry about an activity that seems to have no use for us and believes they're doing well without us. We do feel its a shame though. Things could have been different to some degree but that train has left the station long ago. Its just as well I suppose since there isn't a venue on the planet that could contain all of us if we decided en-mass to attend nationals. I'll go back to the historical forum with my old time friends where I belong and leave you people to your discussion. I'm sorry I hopped over here to see if there might be a reason for my wife and I to take up interest and support again but I see we're not welcome. Sorry for the intrusion. Its just hard for us to ignore the noise sometimes. Good luck.

I remember when drum corps was a youth activity focused on youths and not a service. Opps. I guess I'm on the wrong forum.

IMO, DCI has never been concerned about legacy fans. They lost me totally by 1994, I went back in 2005 with an open mind just to see and haven't been back since. I am not alone. Lots of my contemporaries feel the same way. I'm on DCP only to keep in touch with my old friends and to keep the record straight on the historical forum. Yes, DCI has to keep attracting new fans with each major shift in the product. No, we, "the dinosaurs", don't expect to wake up one day and see shows written like they were in 1969. We're OK with change even if we don't show up any more. We've moved on to other things. This makes things harder for DCI over time as it keeps reinventing the activity. Besides, there isn't a venue anywhere in the world big enough to hold all of us even if they sold tickets on the back field and end zones. One has to wonder how much money we all could be spending on supporting the activity today and in the future if DCI had paid attention to us years ago before we all turned our backs to the current activity. Good luck. (Don't worry, I didn't let the door hit me on the way out.) P.S. Did I mention that high school and college kids have no money? Oh. I'm sorry. I neglected to say that its the legacy fans that have lots of disposable income to toss at DCI corps. Err, well I guess that train left the station many years ago. Sorry. Good luck squeezing blood out of a rock.

Welcome to old time drum corps. Even though DCI was established by then there was still a transition period between what was and what DCI wanted to be. Several things could account for these results which may seem odd today but actually were not that uncommon BITD. Without us being able to review the actual performances its possible the corps had a bad show or two. It could be they had one really great one. More likely is the judging. Back then it was not uncommon to have different judging panels from different sources between prelims and finals, especially at a show like the World Open. Most likely, local judges for prelims and "national" judges brought in from afar for finals. Each panel would set the norms for each show so that corps would be kept "in the ball park". With the way execution was judged back then a small, less talented corps could find themselves with zeros for all execution captions. That would not be good so there would be a general agreement that only say one in five errors would be marked for all corps in the show. That would skew the actual scores to the high end of the curve but would not result in total humiliation to the bottom corps. In prelims the norm would be looser than finals. In finals, judging would be more critical as the spread (both in talent or performance and in scores) between finalists would be narrower because the finalists were the cream of the crop for that particular show. This also meant that the corps had to really do the job or they'd get pushed back by those that did because of the narrower range of scores. Moving from a show like the 1974 World Open to DCI Nationals would mean a complete change of norms because there were a lot more corps at Nationals and DCI would bring in all the "national judges", the big guns if you will. There was a lot at stake for the corps especially the top 25 from the year before who of course were the only DCI member corps. There was real pressure to "make things happen" with the member corps or a judge or judges would get banned officially or unofficially. (Yes these things did happen over the years. My father was a corps director and was deeply involved behind the scene outside of our corps. His experience was not unique and many a judge form the old days left town in a hurry, never to be seen there again after not "playing ball".) Of course, don't loose site of the fact that Pembroke was a New England powerhouse at the time but may have had issues the few times they went on the road as they did not regularly tour. Politics and a bad day could really kill a corps score. IIRC prelim shows were at that point in time a full field show so that would not be a factor. DCI did away with the abbreviated field show for prelims in the early 70's. Before this rule change an abbreviated prelim show often had problems trying to mesh drill changes, timing, music and familiarity with the changes. Corps did not often need a prelim show and when they did they often didn't put in too much time perfecting it as it could take away from their practice time for their full time show. There could be huge score swings for each corps, especially if their prelim show fell apart on the field. I'm heading for the bunker now.

I watched a contra player get injured at a practice the night before the 1992 Allentown show and IIRC there was a blank on the field at finals in Madison. I also seem to remember a DCP thread about this or it was mentioned in another thread. The kid slipped and went down flat on his back. He was attended to right away but I was convinced that he got really hurt that night.