danielray Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 (edited) So, I've been around this place for a little while (post a lot less these days, but lurk plenty). Lately, the place has seemed to really be changing a bit, which is as unfortunate as it is both correctable and preventable. Anyway, though it certainly isn't my place to really bring any of this up (it ain't my ant farm), but, as just another simple participant of this community, I figured I'd bring up a few points in hopes to get some wheels turning. Recently, there have been strings of topics and individual posts concerning issues of censorship, filtering, thread closing, consistency in moderation, 'time-outs', etc. ... with accusations along the lines of 'DCP doesn't have the huevos to allow a REAL discussion of {insert zombie topic here}'. Taking two baby steps back... This place is FREE, meaning there is no charge to the end user. There is no bombarding your email box, no soliciting donations, not even a single inconvenience... this is a free lunch. Having spent several years in the biz of the Internets, marketing, media and so on... I can reaffirm the fact that, while it is free for you, it is certainly not even close to free for those that make it available to you. Stop for a second and think... criticism of this place is little different than being invited to dinner at someone's house and then complaining about the meal. Sure, there's a sprinkling of ads here and there... however, I can let you know from personal experience that the revenue generated from these ads, for a site dedicated an obscure niche activity like drum corps, is less than many of my Thursday night bar tabs... and certainly far less than the ACTUAL costs (hardware, software, bandwidth, development, labour, maintenance, administration, etc.) connected with the actual operations of this community. Maybe we had become spoiled in the heady dot-com days, and became conditioned to believe the misguided notion that communities are lucky to have us, rather than the other way around? We saw how that concept turned out (pets.com, anyone?). This place does have incredible potential and has some wonderful moments (I know I've learned a bit here), but maybe it is time for us to be a bit more mature, a bit more respectful and a lot more thankful? Before posting some criticism of X, some tirade about Y or a complaint about Z... maybe we should consider more of the bigger picture? How long can this social experiment be sustained as a gift to each of us? If we wish for it to not only continue to exist, but also to thrive, we need to not only understand the bigger picture, but help to support it. This is not a call for censorship, but more of a suggestion of an individual challenge, that we, as practical adults, behave just as we all would were we conversing over lunch, coffee, beer or out of a parking lot food truck. I know I have been certainly guilty of losing sight of the opportunity here and getting a bit lost in tangent. I'm ready to step up and change. Something to think about... Who are the largest potential supporters of a project like this? Who has the greatest potential interest in the long-term support of a community like this? Do these organizations or companies want to connect their name with the 3,743rd thread on George Hopkins being the anti-christ or a some string of obscenities about {insert controversial topic for middle-aged fans} from what is an adult opinion about a youth activity? Do these organizations or companies want to dilute their carefully guarded brand with juvenile slang or derogatory concept? If we care about not only preserving the opportunity we have here, but taking full advantage of it, maybe we should work together to craft a different approach... to design our following Feats of Strength in general support of something, obviously, we all do care about? Edited July 5, 2007 by danielray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick_D Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 Well said! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krista Posted July 6, 2007 Share Posted July 6, 2007 I'd like to buy you a beer. and just in case you aren't 21 (I can't remember and you have none listed) here's a root beer :mmm: Agreed, very well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMS0527 Posted July 6, 2007 Share Posted July 6, 2007 He's over 21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krista Posted July 6, 2007 Share Posted July 6, 2007 then line 'em up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tank Posted July 6, 2007 Share Posted July 6, 2007 "I got a lot of problems with you people! And now you're gonna hear about it!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nagging Cough! Posted July 7, 2007 Share Posted July 7, 2007 Best post I've read all day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supersop Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 nice propaganda ... where's the KoolAid? Let's make sure this thread gets stapled to the top so everyone can read it forever. Maybe then we'll all forget about countless topics being closed/censored/edited at the whim of individuals who have little to NO accountability to the end users who obviously enjoy being frustrated and belittled by those with power trips and itchy trigger fingers. I understand there have been issues with those who are less than mature about their approach to this community. There are also issues with those who are less than responsible with their actions as "management". In the meantime, I'll keep my running tally of closed threads, edited posts and merged topics that have nothing to do with each other. If there's an issue of storage space .. for God's sakes start archiving or you'll have to merge threads from today with posts from 3 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
^Michael^ Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 (edited) nice propaganda ... where's the KoolAid?Let's make sure this thread gets stapled to the top so everyone can read it forever. Maybe then we'll all forget about countless topics being closed/censored/edited at the whim of individuals who have little to NO accountability to the end users who obviously enjoy being frustrated and belittled by those with power trips and itchy trigger fingers. I understand there have been issues with those who are less than mature about their approach to this community. There are also issues with those who are less than responsible with their actions as "management". In the meantime, I'll keep my running tally of closed threads, edited posts and merged topics that have nothing to do with each other. If there's an issue of storage space .. for God's sakes start archiving or you'll have to merge threads from today with posts from 3 years ago. Dan - do you enjoy being so contrary all the time? Maybe it's just me, but it sure seems like a miserable way to live - but then - it's your life and your "choice" (there's that pesky word again!) :P - and I respect your right to choose. It just seems to me that you're much too young to be so cynical and jaded. I apologize for my armchair analysis, but I hope you'll accept it in the concerned spirit it is offered. If not - that's also your choice! Edited July 18, 2007 by ^Michael^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bawker Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 (edited) I see it's time for the annual "happy, happy" post here....to remind us all of what idiots and chimps we are for having an opinion that either isn't "rah rah" drum corps/DCI/DCA, or goes against moderator/administrator discretion. As far as Daniel's opinion...have you been on a sports message board? The level of discourse here is a far site higher than places like that...but a sports board is still about the equivalent of what we have here. There are trolls everywhere, and they come out a lot quicker during the "season" here, which we're in the midst of now. Same as it ever was. We are a niche market...and no amount of pedagogical puffery and trying to make us seem like the music educators best friend is going to change that. The cost incurred to run DCP is a known quantity...George knew it when he started it; John knows it now. It's never been a money maker, and I don't think any of us expect it to be. Anyone who has ran the site didn't expect to make their fortunes here. I don't think I'd have a problem with donating money...I did it before, and I'd do it again...but let's not float the "we should all just be happy to be here" stuff as gospel. The more corporate sponsorship a place gets, the tighter the reigns go on moderation wise, anyway. We will never be slashdot, fark or digg...it just won't happen. If you want an insular environment where we all do things "for the kids", love the activity and just use this as a mouthpiece for WGI/DCI/BOA, then just say so....but don't put the onus of responsibility on the end-user for being passionate about an activity that has it share of problems. We have sexual abusers, we have financial mismanagement, we have poor leadership...the activity is rife with bad decisions, ne'er-do-wells and those only looking to serve their own interests. Just like any other activity or group. The level of discourse will improve when we stop closing everything that might be "uh, oh...this might make corps "x" look bad because they didn't feed their kids/overspent and needed a loan from DCI/had a sexual predator on staff/etc". Those things need to be pointed out....they need to be put into a context (even one with vehement debate and the requisite trolls) for people who participate in the activity to see all of it. It's free...and that's great. But decide what you really are: a place to just talk about "the kids" and their adventures... or somewhere that is really a "parking lot" as Daniel describes...that being a place where we can talk about all the problems we face, the issues that affect us and how we can improve things. Additionally, moderation issues should never be "taken to PM". The moderators are members of the community and active participants. If there is something that needs to be said concerning those individuals or the direction of the site, then it should be done openly and with discourse concerning it. Not every decision a moderator or administrator makes is the correct one. Flame away. :) Edited July 18, 2007 by bawker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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