Scoring? What is going on.

[3rd_Star_Brigade]

The job the judges do is very difficult. It is very difficult to judge a piece of art, with as many complexities as Drum Corps, and then assign a number to it, down to the decimal. There are things they overlook, things they don't get, concepts they don't like/or get, things they underestimate, and problems they miss.

What they try to do is balance objective and subjective judging for each corps and assign a level of where that corps is at. This is the best way. If the Cadets have an off-night, like they did last year where the whole corps fell-apart on the field for about 40 seconds, the judges will see this as a lowering of General Effect, but they place them at where they think they will go from there.

What is the possibility of success and achievement from this point in time? Then, they get detailed.

[Richard]

I saw both Teal and Spartans at both Nashua and Lawrence. In Nashua, Teal had a pretty solid performance, and Spartans came out a little flat. At the same time, Spartans were worlds cleaner than Teal and their entire package is on a higher level, and the scores reflected that.

Last night however, Teal was not good. They were not any cleaner than they were in Nashua, and there were individual mistakes. Missed releases everywhere. Intonation was very poor. Plus multiple timing tears. I really like the show itself, but last night the performance and execution were not good.

Spartans, conversely, were on their game. The visual was much more refined, and the music had considerably more shape and direction than it did in Nashua. They had a fantastic show. With Spartans being cleaner than Teal and having a much better performance that evening, I think the 12 point spread isn't as far fetched as you might think...

[dcfan07]

Just some general thoughts on judging.

People complain about "slotting" when corps get in a range and advance at about the same rate as those competitors around them. When scores begin jumping around some people complain about "inconsistent scoring". Well, you can't have it both ways.

I've also been told that the new system of Judging II/III (at the request of the Div II/III directors) is that they use the same sheets as "Div I" corps (they used to be different) and the judges are just asked to "change their tolerance" to a more appropriate expectation for smaller/younger corps. While there are specific criteria on the back of the Div I sheets, I think it's rather silly to expect any two people to have the same variation in their "change in tolerance" for the Div II/III corps.

My guess is that this is the cause of the variation in the Div II/III shows you see. As for the Div I scores, I"m kind of glad to see some judges finally "reacting" to the performance of the kids THAT NIGHT and not going off of the reputation of the corps past performance or the rep of their staff.

my $ .02

[EuphCub]

im going to have to agree. there is no way surf onyl improved 1 point over the course of a weeks rehersal. i marched DII and scoring is erradic at the DII level.

[lara87]

im going to have to agree. there is no way surf onyl improved 1 point over the course of a weeks rehersal. i marched DII and scoring is erradic at the DII level.

My son is in a Div III corps, and one night this season, he was concerned about their standing because another corps had a high score jump, and they had dropped a couple points. I pointed out to him that the other corps performed in a different venue with different judges and he replied, in a tone of surprised awareness, "oh yeah!" (the light bulb came on!)

Bottom line....the telling time will be at semifinals/finals when everyone performs at the same venue.

my 2 cents. :)

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[fella929]

The 16ish piont jump for revo is more than a little far fetched for me. Considering it happened in four days in which (from what I understand) one was parades and the other was a free day in chigago. Two days of good rehersal and 16 pionts. Take a look at the judges for each night. Before the huge jump revo took they were being judged by much more expirianced judges (some even the head judges of thier caption) and then a much more inexpirianced panel (many from texas) jumped them the biggest spread I have seen out of any corps in that amount of time. Now I am sure that the kids at revo are working very hard and I am not putting the corps down at all. However I have a hunch that things might be different when revo gets better judgeing.

[Teal_Euph88]

I commented on the scoring of teal in the springfield topic. I marched in 2005 when we were good, and i marched again in 2006 when we tried to repeat the sucess with a new corps and it didn't happen. Teal is young and bigger than they have ever been. Teal has never had to deal with getting that large of a group of kids clean. It has shown in there visual score which is where the score has varied the most. I'm on deployment in the navy and have no connection to teal this year other than my alumni status, but i know they weren't finished with there show visually and that they were changing it on the fly. Although i would love to blame it on the judges, i know that shows can be inconsistent especially when you aren't finished or have just finished your product. Spartans have been at the top of division 2 for years. (both size wise and as far as continous performance.) Teal made division 2 barely in 2005. I'm not worried about teal, i know i loved being the underdog and overthrowing corps at finals, but i had just as much fun placing 11th in 2006. I wish them the best when they head out west. Hopefully that latest score will be a base for them to grow off of but I will post their scoring history again and you can see the fluctuation in scoring that would seem to point towards inconsistentcy.

Teal Sound

21 June 2007: 59.65 (CrownBEAT, Benson NC)

22 June 2007: 62.35 (FirstBEAT, Columbia SC)

23 June 2007: 66.40 (The Atanta Brass Classic, Milton GA)

25 June 2007:67.15 (The Alabama Battle of the Brass, Russsellville AL)

26 June 2007: 62.65 (Drum Across the Bluegrass, Lexington, KY)(A little over 4 point drop in 1 show)

28 June 2007: 66.95 (Music on the Mon, Elizabeth PA)

1 July 2007: 68.20 (Drums Along the Mohawk, Rome NY)

2 July 2007: 70.85 (Adirondack Drums, Ft. Edwards/Glens Falls NY)

3 July 2007: 66.8 (Bugler's Holiday, Nashua NH)

6 July 2007: 65.3 (East Coast Classic, Lawrence MA)(A little over a 5 point drop in 2 shows)

7 July 2007: 72.8 (Youth on Parde, Springfield MA)

Again I hope for the best but either way i know that Teal is going to put out an entertaing show, and just like every other corps out there is aiming for that championship wheter or not they are close. The instructors always tell you to leave it all on the field because that is the only thing you can do, and all you will remember if you don't.

Gregory "Beaver/Beaker" Ryan

Teal Sound Euphonium 2005-2006

[leadsop97]

I saw Spartans, Raiders, and Teal last night in Springfield. My thoughts from the show were that placements and scoring were justified. Spartans were much cleaner than both Teal and Raiders, in every aspect. I also personally thought they were more entertaining in every aspect, although Teal was VERY loud, which I liked.

[Musicman1084]

I hate to say it, but when I saw them in Lawrence I thought the spread was VERY justified. Teal was just incredibly dirty and the Spartans were fairly polished for this early. The most astounding difference between the corps were their visual performances. Teal had members with feet all over the place, completely indecipherable drill formations, phasing, poor posture, etc., and I can't even comment on the difference in color guard. On the other hand, Teal's horn line is playing fairly well thus far and are much louder than I was expecting. They're losing steam towards the end, but that's not as much of a concern right now as the visual performance. The drumline was also unexpectedly dirty, considering Teal is usually in the hunt to win percussion.

[pinkies]

for me, scores and gaps hold little weight this early in the season. it starts comming into play 1-2 weeks before finals when the majority of the cleaning is done and they are playing all div2/3 shows.

there really isn't a way to explain the variations...they just are what they are.

keep up the hard work everybody!

901!