Louisville - July 11, 2007

[Gentleman Marcher]

Legit? I do make an attempt to keep an open mind

A very good interpretation, and I think I agree almost entirely with your analysis. But it also hits again on why I dislike the show so much. I had the same problem with the Kennesaw Mountain HS show in...I think it was 2004? Very similar concept, lots of feel-good, easy to understand, sort of "this is your orientation to our activity" kind of show. Kennesaw got second at BOA Grand Nationals, and deserved to--spectacular drill, great horns and drums. But I never liked that show either, mostly because they already had the complete package underneath the narration. I will admit, however, that the show design and concept made the narration more integral to that show, incorporating more elements similar to the Cadets basics block, and so forth.

This is also one of the most civil discussions of this show I've seen on DCP in a long time, please let's keep it that way. Some very good, honest, and civil opinions being shared here.

[Medeabrass]

<snip>

This is also why I don't feel like this increased narration is killing the activity. I would be astounded if you saw any shows like this out of the Cavaliers, SCV or Phantom Regiment in the next 20 years. Its not something like Bb horns or 135 members where you need them to be competitive, its just an available option that I don't see as being too appealing to most corps over the long haul.

Good point...I think/hope you are right. These corps have proven they can be competitive without it

[marshamello]

Good point...I think/hope you are right. These corps have proven they can be competitive without it

And The Cadets have proven that they can be competitive with or without it. Again, it's all about the right to use the option if you so choose in that particular year (and to what extent you choose to use it in that particular year).

[euponitone]

And The Cadets have proven that they can be competitive with or without it. Again, it's all about the right to use the option if you so choose in that particular year (and to what extent you choose to use it in that particular year).

I'll go ahead and make one of the first predictions for next year

- the cadets will use significantly less narration in their 2008 show than in their 2007 show.

....just a hunch.......

[Galen]

I regret to say I arrived later to the performance than I had intended, missing what I understood was the national anthem by the Derby City Knights and the first performance of the evening, Memphis Sound. I'm sorry, Sound fans and Knights members, I'd love to have given you a writeup but it was not meant to be.

Tut tut. As penance, I sentence you to drive to Nashville on August 3rd for our first full-out SHOW. B)

[Gentleman Marcher]

Tut tut. As penance, I sentence you to drive to Nashville on August 3rd for our first full-out SHOW. B)

We would have been there with time to spare if we hadn't forgotten the tickets! :P

[PurpleKnights]

I'll go ahead and make one of the first predictions for next year

- the cadets will use significantly less narration in their 2008 show than in their 2007 show.

....just a hunch.......

I think that's what a lot of us assumed about the debacle that was their 2006 show.

Err... no offense.

[Wadep66]

As far as your dislike for the narration, I'm not sure where you were going with the 'we hate basics' comment. For one, its one kid saying "i hate basics", just to counter someone else who likes it. There are plenty of people who hate basics in corps, and there are plenty of people that enjoy different parts of their day in a rehearsal. I think the message being conveyed here is perfectly normal, and about 10 times better than the crap they started the year with (we got in at 6am and blahblahblah). Also, how is the image portrayed in the closer the 'weakest' image. I think some people are uncomfortable with it because frankly it's true to more people in more ways than we admit. How many people that march drum corps will ever do something else in their life that they can be the best in the world at? How many people say they march corps because they get to feel like rock stars night after night, a feeling that they would never get in the real world because they lack the talent, looks, or social abilities to do so? While daniel's story may not fit everybody, there is no reason to demand that it should. I'd be curious to hear how you would go about better designing this section to accomodate the same idea. People feel like theyre being talked down to in this section, but guess what....we're a bunch of people that sit on a message board arguing about people that wear silly uniforms running around the field making pictures and playing music at the same time for some reason. If thats not the definition of dork, then I dont know what is.

No show is supposed to reach everyone in the same possible way. I dont think anyone is trying to say that everyone that's ever marched corps was a reject before, but im willing to bet we all either know someone like that, or we are someone like that. People on this board have already shared their stories, and im willing to bet a lot more could.

BTW...i think they are changing some of that cheesy/ponitificating narration in the openner, and perhaps the mics were an issue because of new timing, etc...

This is a great response, and addresses what seems to be a bit of the "he who protests too much" element that accompanies some of the more vitriolic rants toward certain sections of the narration. A lot of the public views drum corps/band as the dorkiest thing ever, and yes we ARE all dorks to them, but no matter what you do in life, someone will think it isn't cool. The larger message is you either bow to public opinion about something you love or you say **** them and work to be even better at it. If you love to run around a field playing music or throwing stuff in the air, this is the place for you.

I see this section as more a celebration of the courage to be yourself and find the right spot for you with like-minded people than any show of weakness. Really, their whole show reinforces this idea. Martha Graham did a lot of controversial stuff, and the fact that they absolutely structured their whole show around voice, after being constantly pummeled for using it a lot last year is another example. "You don't like it? Well, we will do it MORE then, because we feel it has some merit."

People that attempt a different direction often meet with unpopularity and resistance. The choice becomes whether to let that influence you or not. Interesting stuff, and I think a lot of how you interpret it depends on how often you've taken that road yourself. Some like to be in the pack, others outside of it.

I can't wait to see how the show continues to evolve.

Wow. Two of the best posts I've read on here. I'm glad to finally run across a thread that discusses the merits and effects of the narration and the concept of the show without just going on a rant about how much they don't like it.

To get the show you have to temporarily turn off your biases and cynicism.

I think as was stated, that the intent of the show is to portray the positive development experience that Drum Corps is for almost all that take on the challenge. I disagree that every person who walks through the door is already disciplined and committed to everything they do with the fervor they have to have to be in a competetive corps. If you think you were, you might want to look back and check to make sure you didn't learn ANYTHING during your season. I also don't think it implies that you never again do anything great--- the implication is that you are NAMED WORLD CHAMPION. There is a very small percentage of people who ever get that honor in anything, so don't take it for granted.

Many folks cannot put themselves in others shoes and realize that every kid doesn't come from a nurturing loving environment where praise and adolation are showered upon them and they are encouraged to follow their dreams. I often have the displeasure of being around people who are talking about people who are "lazy" or "don't care" or "haven't got any ambition" just because they don't make $X grand a year. Watch the documentary "Hard Corps" about the kid from the inner city who became a champion marching with the Cadets. The activity DOES change lives. You may think it is cheesy, but it is true.

Though I came from a decent home, I had to work during the summers to earn money for school, so I couldn't march, though I really wanted to. This was before the internet and the communications around sponsorships--so for those who are so arrogant to rant about "you just have to want it bad enough" , you again need to put yourself in someone else's shoes. One of the few things I wish I had done in my youth was to march. Now I live vicariously through arguing with people about it--and trying to help others get the chance.

Does the show work as intended? Depends upon the willingness of the audience member to get it. This isn't the same thing as LIKING it! :)

Edited July 13, 2007 by Wadep66

[euponitone]

Wow. Two of the best posts I've read on here. I'm glad to finally run across a thread that discusses the merits and effects of the narration and the concept of the show without just going on a rant about how much they don't like it.

To get the show you have to temporarily turn off your biases and cynicism.

I think as was stated, that the intent of the show is to portray the positive development experience that Drum Corps is for almost all that take on the challenge. I disagree that every person who walks through the door is already disciplined and committed to everything they do with the fervor they have to have to be in a competetive corps. If you think you were, you might want to look back and check to make sure you didn't learn ANYTHING during your season. I also don't think it implies that you never again do anything great--- the implication is that you are NAMED WORLD CHAMPION. There is a very small percentage of people who ever get that honor in anything, so don't take it for granted.

Many folks cannot put themselves in others shoes and realize that every kid doesn't come from a nurturing loving environment where praise and adolation are showered upon them and they are encouraged to follow their dreams. I often have the displeasure of being around people who are talking about people who are "lazy" or "don't care" or "haven't got any ambition" just because they don't make $X grand a year. Watch the documentary "Hard Corps" about the kid from the inner city who became a champion marching with the Cadets. The activity DOES change lives. You may think it is cheesy, but it is true.

Though I came from a decent home, I had to work during the summers to earn money for school, so I couldn't march, though I really wanted to. This was before the internet and the communications around sponsorships--so for those who are so arrogant to rant about "you just have to want it bad enough" , you again need to put yourself in someone else's shoes. One of the few things I wish I had done in my youth was to march. Now I live vicariously through arguing with people about it--and trying to help others get the chance.

Does the show work as intended? Depends upon the willingness of the audience member to get it. This isn't the same thing as LIKING it! :)

We've got a good thing here, lets keep it going (away from those nuts on the main thread) :)

I especially enjoy one of your first paragraphs, about how not everyone who walks in the door (even in the top corps) is disciplined and commited. I know I certainly wasnt, as I nearly quit in january of my rookie year. After that, I didnt come back. I only decided to go back in 2005 becuase i didnt see much else to do with my life, and it turned out great obviously. I came back in 2006 because, well....basically nobody else did (which led to some of last years issues), and I felt an obligation to the corps. Lets just say it wasnt all fun and pretty, nor did I or anyone else in the corps have the right attitude all the time. I can say I probably learned the most from that last season, being a leader of a ragtag group of rookies (who are now kicking ###!). What I wanted most at the time was to get the season over with, but in retrospect, i learned never to take an experience like that for granted again.

If a fairly normal (relatively speaking) person like me can get that much out of a corps experience, good or bad, I think its fair to say that most people can get even more. Does the show - for me it does. Perhaps thats what I've been arguing about all this time. Its not about liking the narration, hell, i dont like it half the time. It has grown on me, and I'm still deciding whether its something that should grow on me or not. What I do know is that the show WORKS, and I hope it gives the kids the chance to succeed. I have someone very close to me in that corps, and I would probably give up my ring to give that person a chance at one this year (though luckily i wont have to :) )

I seem to have gone on a few tangents here - guess its back to the main thread to wait for scores.....