Cavalier Show Design

[truman]

Um. wow. Did you really calculate every second they are marching and playing? haha.

Yes, I have a DVR of last nights webcast.

I will chart some others and report the findings

[euponitone]

Yes, I have a DVR of last nights webcast.

I will chart some others and report the findings

Sweet...you are my hero by the way :P

[KevinSop85]

I'd really love to see someone do this for BD and SCV too...Heck, all the top 7 would be awesome to see. Any takers?

[yabetterbelieveit]

1st in GE visual

2nd in Brass Tech

According to the breakdown they should be doing that well in those captions... seeing as they only play and march whatever amount of time.

[cavies79]

First off, let it be known that I am not a Cavie fan.

I'm really getting tired of the visual and music scores they get year after year. My argument is that the visual judges, when considering difficulty, do not factor whether there is any playing being done by those who are executing the kaleidescope drill moves. The brass judge also doesn't seem to factor in how difficult it is to play a part while moving, as opposed to standing still.

I charted the Atlanta webcast, and the results are below:

Bold means they were playing while moving at at least some pace

Italic is playing while moving very slowly

Starts: 0:31 to 1:03 Solo

1:04 to 1:16 play and move building chords “backfield"

1:18 to 1:40 saunter forward

1:41 to 2:18 Drum break with opening visual moves---rolling around

2:16 to 2:22 they play while building to a standstill horn hit

2:23 to 2:25 standstill horn hit

2:26 to 2:34 drum break

2:35 to 2:45 they play while moving, while some horns are really moving. They are the ones not playing, the ones playing some tasty licks are stepping at half speed

2:46 to 2:55 they again seem to play while building another horn impact

2:56 to 3:00 standstill horn impact

3:01 to 3:08 drum break

3:09 to 3:13 play while moving

3:14 to 3:24 another drum break

3:25 to 3:28 play while moving

3:29 to 3:36 standstill while some roll on ground

3:37 to 3:51 walking into final chord of opener

3:52 to 4:00 applause

4:00 to 4:40 drum break solo

4:41 to 5:10 They build the connecting semi circles, the ones playing are the ones standing still

5:11 to 5:15 they play while stepping very slowly

5:16 to 5:36 most of the horn line is out, those playing are moving forward very slowly

5:37 to 5:45 playing impact chords while moving very slowly

5:46 to 5:55 standstill impact

5:56 to 6:55 drum breaks

6:56 to 7:03 some tasty horn playing…standing still

7:04 to 7:13 drum break

7:14 to 7:22 play while moving very slowly

7:23 to 7:25 standstill horn impact

7:26 to 7:34 drumbreak

7:35 to 7:54 play while moving…again very slowly

7:55 to 8:37 drum break

8:38 to 8:44 play while building another standstill horn hit

8:45 to 8:50 drum break

8:51 to 9:08 play chords while moving form very slowly

9:09 to 9:13 drum break

9:14 to 9:18 play chords

9:19 to 9:22 standstill horn impact

9:23 to 9:54 drum break

9:55 to 10:25 play while moving—chords—backfield

10:26 to 10:38 drum break

10:39 to 10:55 company front-play while moving forward, some half time some full

10:56 to 11:06 play while moving form slowly

11:06 to 11:16 final chord at standstill

Here's how it works out:

The hornline plays a total of 222 seconds, (less than 4 minutes) while moving in some way

132 seconds of that, more than half, is playing while moving very slowly

Of the 90 seconds that they are actually moving with any speed while playing, almost half is chords played backfield

Of the 48 seconds thay actually play on the move while facing front, most of the time it is for less than 10 seconds at a time. The one time at the end of the show when it is for 16 seconds, half of the ones moving are at half time.

For comparison, PR plays more on the move, really moving, in the first 2:00 minutes of their show.

Is this the design that DCI wants? Should it be considered "clever" to mask this visual supremecy with not playing? How can the degree of difficulty not be penalized?

Discuss...

I think it would be great if you do this type of analysis for all of the top 12. I know many of us be interested in your results. Best of luck.

Edited July 15, 2007 by cavies79

[cavies79]

Stopwatch or no, Cavaliers consistently have the most athletic and demanding show from a physical standpoint.

IN MY OPINION.....

Amen.

[Hornline1995]

Stopwatch or no, Cavaliers consistently have the most athletic and demanding show from a physical standpoint.

IN MY OPINION.....

I think you should try marching everyone's drill book before making a opinion based on physical demands of a show.

Just my thought.

[uncle z]

First off, let it be known that I am not a Cavie fan.

For comparison, PR plays more on the move, really moving, in the first 2:00 minutes of their show.

:blah:

Here's all the research I need to do:

Cavaliers...59 years...20 National Championships

PR...51 years...1 National Championship

work smarter > work harder

I'm really getting tired of the visual and music scores they get year after year. My argument is that the visual judges, when considering difficulty, do not factor whether there is any playing being done by those who are executing the kaleidescope drill moves. The brass judge also doesn't seem to factor in how difficult it is to play a part while moving, as opposed to standing still.

Did somebody call 911, and the season isn't even over yet??

[euponitone]

Stopwatch or no, Cavaliers consistently have the most athletic and demanding show from a physical standpoint.

IN MY OPINION.....

Here's a funny 'fact'. Identical twin brothers marched cadets and cavaliers last year (this with the cadets not having their greatest or hardest year). Both were a big kids, but one brother came back weighing 50 or so pounds LESS than the other. Care to guess where he marched? There's more to athletecism than running around with your horn down. The physical and athletic demands associated with marching and playing simultaneously are what makes drum corps difficult....In my opinion....

- btw, yes i know there could have been other factors that contributed to this disparity, but it is remarkable regardless. And if you think it's because the cadets dont eat well, then i can think of a few hundred alumni and cooks that would be willing to beat you with a spoon or drown you in pats iced tea :)

Edited July 16, 2007 by euponitone

[truman]

It will take me some time, and I'll chart a comparison when done, but for now, here's PR

0:38 Show starts

0:30 to 1:12 intro drum break

1:13 to 1:43 trumpets open, whole horn line joins, playing while moving, jazz running in some spots1:44 to 1:48 drum break

1:49 to 1:57 first horn impact while moving

1:58 to 2:01 standstill horn impact

2:02 to 2:04 drum break

2:05 to 2:16 more trumpet feature, playing while moving

2:17 to 2:20 playing at standstill

2:21 to 2:28 not just playing on the move…running!

2:29 to 2:31 standstill impact

2:32 to 2:57 drum break, but Tubas are playing while moving pretty fast, counted as non playing time

2:58 to 3:25 Horn impact..a lot of fast moving drill while playing

3:26 to 3:38 BIG horn hit standing still

3:39 to 3:50 Playing while moving backfield

3:50 to 4: 01 Backfield chords moving slowly

4:01 to 4:25 drumbreak transition to ballad

4:26 to 4:45 duet

4:46 to 4:55 echo to duet moving slowly

4:56 to 5:02 horn impact, doing ballet moves, counted as standstill

5:03 to 5:20 duet

5:21 to 5:27 drumbreak

5:28 to 5:42 building to ballad impact playing while moving running into impact

5:43 to 5:54 playing ballad hit loud and on the move

5:55 to 6:02 impact chord standstill

6:03 to 6:25 duet ends applause.

6:26 to 6:54 Tuba intro build to dissonant chords, counted as moving slowly

6:55 to 7:25 playing build to impact while running in spots

7:26 to 7:31 Impact at standstill

7:32 to 7:39 Playing while moving fast in build to pinwheels

7:40 to 7:42 drumbreak

7:43 to 7:53 Pinwheels playing loud and moving FAST

7:54 to 8:15 drum break

8:16 to 8:19 stereo feature, (counted as moving slow)

8:20 to 9:06 drum feature and ending, tubas playing some tough licks on the move, but counted as not playing time

9:07 to 9:30 Euph solo

9:31 to 9:51 playing backfield moving slowly

9:52 to 10:04 First Fbird impact, moving form slowly

10:05 to 10:07 Standstill impact

10:07 to 10:12 drumbreak

10:13 to 10:34 playing while RUNNING

10:35 to 10:50 playing while SPRINTING

10:51 to 10:53 standstill impact

10:44 to 11:10 playing while moving

11:11 to 11:15 standstill chords

11:16 to 11:22 playing while moving

11:23 to 11:27 Final chord at standstill

Total time playing while moving:

315 seconds (over 5 minutes)

Total time playing while moving FAST:

232 seconds, (that's more than Cavs total playing while moving at all)

They are not just moving in Firebird, they are FLYING while playing some tough horn book.

They have 4 different times of playing while moving fast of almost 30 seconds at a clip. That is physical demand to me, not running around holding a horn.