beavs Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 The way I see it, why make members move if they don't have to? There is effect in lack of movement, just as there is in movement. Same with music. In my opinion, it has more to do with the achievment in the effect that the corps is trying to get. Writing a hard show for the sake of writing a hard show should get absolutely no merit in design, IF the show isn't achieving the effect the said corps desires. In that case, you have to wonder if the corps even thought about the design in itself, or if they just wanted a lot of moving and playing. Cadets '01 comes to mind. Laying down on the field durring the ballad. ezmode? maybe (probably not). Effective? In my opinion, yes. Bluecoats this year seem to be running all over the field - when they aren't hiding, but they just aren't going anywhere (from an effect standpoint). Sometimes the drill is more effective when there isn't any music to destract you from it. Also, don't forget to take into account the stepsize, distance, and velocity and the tempo the members are moving and playing at. Don't forget, what/when/where on the field relative to eachother the members are playing. Brass judges, and visual, don't judge solely on difficulty OR perfection. Theoretically, they judge achievment. How well the corps is achieving, or executing the show they are performing. I really think we should march the show before we start judging its difficulty. I'm sure just being on the field with the corps would give a better perspective than watching multicam. As a performer you're trained not to show how difficult the program is. As an audience member, you don't want to see or hear whatever difficulty the show might give the performers. Its so enjoyableIn my opinion this looks like a more difficult Cavaliers show, in comparison to '05 or '06 (which were both relatively difficult shows). 'Specially for the hornline. I love the show too. Very entertaining. Want a new/better ending... It takes a serious anti-fan to create these stats in debate over difficulty. If you, the OP, were really worried about the future of drum corps judging, maybe e-mail this to DCI. Better yet, send it to The Cavaliers' and see what they think.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 wait - where is Stuart Rice when we need him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScribeToo Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 I don't see this as a slam on the corps - it's more their style. It's smart & effectiveSome of us have an issue with the way it gets scored in GE (judging community seems to have given them a pass on the demand on the go issue) But it's so well done - well - who cares! I know we don't disagree on this point as much as it will appear we do in a few seconds but if something is "effective" and "done so well" -- doesn't that also mean it would end up with scores that equate with "successful general effect?" If that's the case, maybe they're getting scored that way precisely because they ARE doing it so well and it's so effective. Just a thought. Stef Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CloudFuel Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 Now do that for the past 5 years, I haven't seen this show yet.. so I can't comment on this one... But from experience, I can guarantee you that in 2004... I personally was playing and marching for a very long time.. moving at speeds of 160-216... I think it all has to do with the design as mentioned before... maybe they don't move every second of every show and play as well.. but it's #### good... and that's what matters. Thanks, though, for the time and effort you spent on this show.. I'd be interested to see the rest of the top 12 and from years past as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euponitone Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 (edited) NO!How hard something that is performed is should be a factor when judging this activity. You have to balance what you attempt with your ability to execute it. Dont bother...this kind of response comes out every time someone brings this up as well. You just get back to your data crunching :) Oh, and everyone knows that running around at 200+ bpm isnt a big deal. Anyone thats marched a decent corps or even hs band knows that its the direction changes... Im being dead serious, its where every problem occurs, both marching and playing. Its also, from a marching standpoint, something the cavaliers do very much of, and very well. I just wish they would play while they did it :P Edited July 15, 2007 by euponitone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euponitone Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 Now do that for the past 5 years, I haven't seen this show yet.. so I can't comment on this one...But from experience, I can guarantee you that in 2004... I personally was playing and marching for a very long time.. moving at speeds of 160-216... I think it all has to do with the design as mentioned before... maybe they don't move every second of every show and play as well.. but it's #### good... and that's what matters. Thanks, though, for the time and effort you spent on this show.. I'd be interested to see the rest of the top 12 and from years past as well. I dont think it was a problem in 04, or even 05 honestly. For all the people saying what the cavies have now is smart design, I submit that 2004 is the best of both worlds, a well designed, thought out, and paced show, with enough demand in the march/play dept. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 (edited) I know we don't disagree on this point as much as it will appear we do in a few seconds but if something is "effective" and "done so well" -- doesn't that also mean it would end up with scores that equate with "successful general effect?" If that's the case, maybe they're getting scored that way precisely because they ARE doing it so well and it's so effective. Just a thought. Stef I was referring to the demand question / how brass demand WHILE marching gets credit in the GE music column Yes - I think if it is EFFECTIVE they should get credit. But I don't think visual demand while not playing (horn down) should get a pass I don't think we disagree at all. Edited July 15, 2007 by George Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truman Posted July 15, 2007 Author Share Posted July 15, 2007 It takes a serious anti-fan to create these stats in debate over difficulty. If you, the OP, were really worried about the future of drum corps judging, maybe e-mail this to DCI. Better yet, send it to The Cavaliers' and see what they think.... The whole point to this thread, and my number crunching, was to substantiate my feeling about this show design. I am not closed minded enough, or "anti fan" if you will to not consider other points of view. That is why I chose this forum for this thread. After all this is a drum corps discussion forum, right? I already know the Cavies and DCI position. They couldn't care less about mine. Now I know yours! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScribeToo Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 I don't think we disagree at all. Yes we do! Stop contradicting me! (thanks though.. I knew we weren't far off.. just wanted to further clarify hahaha) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halcyon122 Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 I dont think it was a problem in 04, or even 05 honestly. For all the people saying what the cavies have now is smart design, I submit that 2004 is the best of both worlds, a well designed, thought out, and paced show, with enough demand in the march/play dept. But how do you determine "enough" demand? What's your measure of demand? And why does something have to be so hard to be recognized as smart, effective, well-paced, well-performed, etc.? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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