Young Screamers

[Contra Joe]

The whole "you need to move tons of air" mantra for upper register playing is false. The higher you play, less air enters the instrument.

Do the Cadets play anymore or just sing???

[vferrera]

I don't know - Roland Garceau seems to scream just fine on his Xeno.

You can find a counter-example to just about any argument. It doesn't address the validity of the argument. Especially if the counter-example is an obviously exceptional case.

In my experience, yamaha and bach trumpets have a lot of resistance and require more effort to play in the upper register than most g-bugles and some Bb trumpets I've played. And I'm definitely not an exceptional player.

[vferrera]

The whole "you need to move tons of air" mantra for upper register playing is false. The higher you play, less air enters the instrument.

I should have said more energy or effort. Whether that translates into air volume, compression or velocity is debatable. But at equal volumes, a higher frequency pitch contains more energy than a lower frequency. Energy is a function of mass (volume x pressure) and velocity, so one of those variables has to increase.

[Martybucs]

You can find a counter-example to just about any argument. It doesn't address the validity of the argument. Especially if the counter-example is an obviously exceptional case.

In my experience, yamaha and bach trumpets have a lot of resistance and require more effort to play in the upper register than most g-bugles and some Bb trumpets I've played. And I'm definitely not an exceptional player.

Many times horn or mouthpiece resistance aids the playing in the upper register for some people.

[CorpsBuff]

(vferrera @ Jul 19 2007, 09:56 PM) *

But screaming is not just playing high. You need a horn that you can put a *lot* of air through. The standard bore Yamaha Xeno is a fine horn, but it is not built for screaming. Frankly, it is painful to watch and listen to a line of 20 guys blowing their brains out trying to force air through those things. It's not the horn's fault - it just isn't meant to be played that way. There are other horns out there that might be more suitable.

i totally agree the yamaha xeno models i marched with last summer were alright horns up till around the C/D range then they really cut off sound and thin out your tone.

I don't know - Roland Garceau seems to scream just fine on his Xeno.

Yes but Roland isn't human.

... he's french Canadian!

[jdostie]

Many times horn or mouthpiece resistance aids the playing in the upper register for some people.

I am guessing here that a resistant instrument requires the player to have a more focused airflow to get the air moving through the horn -

and the resulting focused airflow is more conducive (in fact part of) playing higher notes.

Revelation today from a comeback player. First lesson (I want lessons to rebuild properly - and hopefully exceed where I was so many years ago).

I was doing some upper register work (he wanted to see how I sustained higher notes), and began to fade - his comment was that I was tightening my chin.

Strange, so working to keep my chin in the same position, I discovered that I needed to push more air from my abdomen. Now, having previously proven that

the air support is there (I was able to sustain long tones significantly longer than the teacher), I came on the revelation that the air support can be "there"

(in the diaphram) without "being there" (in the air stream).

Having to push harder against a resistant horn MIGHT, for some people force them to bring that support to where it needs to be.

Now its going to be some time before I increase my range to where I want it, and I am certainly not young, but it was a real eye opener.

[Martybucs]

I am guessing here that a resistant instrument requires the player to have a more focused airflow to get the air moving through the horn -

and the resulting focused airflow is more conducive (in fact part of) playing higher notes.

Revelation today from a comeback player. First lesson (I want lessons to rebuild properly - and hopefully exceed where I was so many years ago).

I was doing some upper register work (he wanted to see how I sustained higher notes), and began to fade - his comment was that I was tightening my chin.

Strange, so working to keep my chin in the same position, I discovered that I needed to push more air from my abdomen. Now, having previously proven that

the air support is there (I was able to sustain long tones significantly longer than the teacher), I came on the revelation that the air support can be "there"

(in the diaphram) without "being there" (in the air stream).

Having to push harder against a resistant horn MIGHT, for some people force them to bring that support to where it needs to be.

Now its going to be some time before I increase my range to where I want it, and I am certainly not young, but it was a real eye opener.

Depending on the amount of resistance, it supports the embouchure of certain players making it easier to play in the upper register. Piccolo trumpets come in a very small bore, but also larger bores because people play differently - in the upper register especially.The problem with most people playing a tight horn or mouthpiece is that they tend to try and overcome the resistance by blowing harder. A person that prefers a tight setup can use the resistance to their advantage. Someone that does not prefer a tight set up will try to overcome the resistance by blowing harder - doesn't work.

Conversely, someone that prefers a tight set up would hate an open set up.

It's a balancing act requiring some experimentation, but the experimentation can have huge payoffs if you find a set up that compliments the manner in which you play.

Some people prefer very open horns, some very tight. That's why they make so many types of horns and mouthpieces. Everyone is a different size and plays in their own manner. Just like you would probably find the wrong size clothing uncomfortable.

The diaphragm offers no support in playing a tone. The diaphragm is used on inhalation only - without it you couldn't inhale.

It's the muscle groups used in exhalation that help support the tone.

Edited March 16, 2008 by Martybucs

[jdostie]

The diaphragm offers no support in playing a tone. The diaphragm is used on inhalation only - without it you couldn't inhale.

It's the muscle groups used in exhalation that help support the tone.

I stand corrected; but the revelation about having sufficient breath, and somehow not applying it - I'm still trying to figure that out. . .

Added a little something from the abdomen (or maybe taking away some restraint? I can't quite say), and bang, very little mp pressure, nice tone, and no strain. . . Yet I would have sworn that I had sufficient supportprior to that; I could feel all that potential energy in my lungs.

[Martybucs]

I stand corrected; but the revelation about having sufficient breath, and somehow not applying it - I'm still trying to figure that out. . .

Added a little something from the abdomen (or maybe taking away some restraint? I can't quite say), and bang, very little mp pressure, nice tone, and no strain. . . Yet I would have sworn that I had sufficient supportprior to that; I could feel all that potential energy in my lungs.

Personally, I don't like to "over" breathe. I usually just take in an amount of air, equal to what is necessary to play the phrase at hand, plus a little reserve.

Some people fill up on every breath. That doesn't work for me.

I find that I never really need a huge breath, even when playing loud and high.

[Drew Wilkie]

Air is one of those things that is hotly contested amongst trumpet players, because often what we think we're feeling, isn't what is actually happening.

Many players feel that they are moving a lot of air when they play loudly in the upper register. This is because the abs are tight, and physical exertion is occurring. But in reality, to sustain notes in the upper register, the aperture has to become smaller...resulting in LESS air actually entering the instrument! Now, the air is being injected at a higher speed, but less volume. Even though it FEELS like a lot of air is moving, it's actually a pretty small amount. The moral of the story is that in reality, one needs only a very small amount of air to play the trumpet in all registers. Jim Manley (great lead trumpet player in the St. Louis area) is a big proponent of the "not blowing" camp. In his words, one only needs the amount of air it takes to speak, to play the trumpet...even in the upper register. And what's better, is that he can demonstrate it! Just enough air to get the vibration going is all that's needed.

I don't mean for this to sound arrogant. Apparently someone found phantom arrogance in some of my posts. To alleviate any confusion, I am not arrogant :)

Oh, and about the Cadets...yup, we still play!

Hey Frank...thanks for the kind words! It's rocking my world to read such nice things about me, written by a drum corps legend. I AM NOT WORTHY!

Edited March 16, 2008 by Drew Wilkie