Cavaliers Ripped in G.E. Visual

[murppie]

it is possible to win visual performance and struggle in GE Visual. performance looks at how well the corps marches, member to member. GE Visual looks at the big picture. so in other words....the drill was dirty. i think this was the dirtiest the cavies have been drillwise in a long time, IMHO

Yes, the Cavis honestly looked dirty last night. And I love the Cavies visual program, I think that the drill writer is a genius and their demands often times borderline insanity. However it honestly didn't look clean to me compared to the corps who duked it out in the middle.

I spoke to several Cavalier members who told me the physical demand for this show was harder than any other that they had marched. Approx 210 sets that is almost a set every 3 to 4 seconds not counting all the time they supposedly stand around just playing. There is no other corps that could march that show. I think it is ironic that now that they have played a lyrical cohesive show that had many mood and mode changes the title goes to admittedly a great corps but a show just chock full of whole half and quarter notes blasted in your face relentlessly for seemingly the whole show. If there were any subtle moments in the show I probaply didn't hear them because my ears were trying to recover. The wavy line thing is a single strand of DNA from the 95 Planets show. Please do not get me wrong BD deserved to win but that show will not go down in history as innovative. NO WAY

Not quite agreeing with this no corps could do it thing. I think any corps given the time to practice their stuff could do it. Hence why all shows are incredibly difficult in their own way. Just a thought.

[CloudFuel]

Perhaps the judge(s) have finally realized that what the Caviliers do is the same every year. Visually their show ends up being a lot of pinwheels, break ups into meshes and rotations. They have essentially marched the same drill for at least the last 5 years. They do execute what they perform very well, but overall it's not very difficult and 9 times out of 10 when the horn line is marching something difficult, they aren't playing. Also look to see where they line up their company fronts. I would bet money that over 3/4ths of them in the last 5 years line up on the front hash. Is it smart? Yes. Is it easy? Yes.

You have to compare the corps difficulty, and execution. The Cavi's have regenerated their shows visually for years now and finally have paid the price.

You're kidding right?

That crap really doesn't even deserve a response. It's getting to the point where if I were a director I would say nevermind the DCI judges and just do the show I want to do.. You're only gonna end up wherever they want you anyways. How a corps can win brass all season long and then drop 4 spots in one night is beyond absurd, how another can dominate visual and then be slammed one night, but then brought right back up the next.. also ridiculous. The problem is, there's no one to put the DCI judges in check... and boy do they need to be.

[euponitone]

You're out of your element Donnie!

Curve drill = Easy

It can change from night to night and nobody would ever know cept the staff and the kids.

Geometric style drill must be perfect every single run because even the deaf/blind grandma in the back row of the Rose Bowl can see if a kid is out of line.

Ignorant. Maybe if the entire curve is set back a step, noone will know, but if a person or people are not 'in the form', it will be plainly obvious. The thing about most of the cavies geometric drill is that it usually occurs on a very small scale as a part of a larger whole. They favor lines of 4-6 people doing lots of different things to create cool effect. While this looks cool to the viewer, it is, imo, easier to clean, and harder to pick out flaws, than in curvalinear drill.

When all is said and done, we are talking about the GE of the show, which is not necessarily the demand (in fact it doesnt even take it into account) The OP was woefully ignorant of this fact, but we have to remember that 'harder' (which is debatable anyway), does not mean more effective. I think demand should be heavily factored into other areas of course, but the only GE that comes from demand is the 'wow' moment, and all the corps had plenty.

[JMS0527]

Maybe judges are just averse to long melodic lines.

The 2004 Cavies didn't have any of these then?

[Tommeee]

If you weren't at the show last night, then should you be offering an opnion on the judging last night?

[Fincis]

You're kidding right?

That crap really doesn't even deserve a response. It's getting to the point where if I were a director I would say nevermind the DCI judges and just do the show I want to do.. You're only gonna end up wherever they want you anyways. How a corps can win brass all season long and then drop 4 spots in one night is beyond absurd, how another can dominate visual and then be slammed one night, but then brought right back up the next.. also ridiculous. The problem is, there's no one to put the DCI judges in check... and boy do they need to be.

Everyone gets slammed back and forth depending on the judges. Do I find it little suspicious? Yes. Does it hurt when it's against The Cadets? Yes. Does every judge have a different emphasis of what to look for in their caption? Yes. I really don't think they're trying to slam anyone on purpose, just judging what they see/hear.

[year1buick]

Ignorant. Maybe if the entire curve is set back a step, noone will know, but if a person or people are not 'in the form', it will be plainly obvious. The thing about most of the cavies geometric drill is that it usually occurs on a very small scale as a part of a larger whole. They favor lines of 4-6 people doing lots of different things to create cool effect. While this looks cool to the viewer, it is, imo, easier to clean, and harder to pick out flaws, than in curvalinear drill.

When all is said and done, we are talking about the GE of the show, which is not necessarily the demand (in fact it doesnt even take it into account) The OP was woefully ignorant of this fact, but we have to remember that 'harder' (which is debatable anyway), does not mean more effective. I think demand should be heavily factored into other areas of course, but the only GE that comes from demand is the 'wow' moment, and all the corps had plenty.

Agreed. Some of the hardest drill I marched involved curvilinear reshapes. (And yes, you could tell if we marched it poorly.)

[BaritoneUnit]

I agree. Straight line drill is way easier than curved. Its easier to dress while on the move because all you have to do is be right behind and in front of someone else. In a curve you could be one step in the wrong direction and the whole thing would look like garbage and curves are not as easily dressed as straight lines because you have to look for harder to see things. Flashy does not always = hard.

[katysand]

One Fact: Curtis Costanza never scored the Cavaliers above a second place anytime, in any caption he judged them at this year. I'm not saying he is always biased, but this year he did not like their program and seemed to have them pegged from the first time he judged them. I was not surprised at his GE visual score once I saw he was judging that caption at all. Funny how DCI never announced the panels. They did last year.

Edited August 12, 2007 by katysand

[ChiBoyinLA]

Cavaliers faced Cadets 8 times this season, and never lost to them in GE visual until last night.

Cavaliers faced BD 12 times this season, and lost to BD only twice before last night.

Cavaliers marched a GREAT show last night (I was there), but they lost to BOTH Cadets and BD in GE visual.

Cavaliers were 0.5 up on BD in GE Visual on Friday night, and 0.2 down in that caption 24 hours later. A 0.7 swing, which is really large. Did Cavaliers knock one out of the park on Friday, and stink on Saturday? No. Was BD considerably more "visually effective" on Saturday than on Friday? No. Actually, both corps were pretty consistent all three nights (if anything, Cavaliers were better on Saturday, as they eliminated the falls and equipment drops they had on Friday).

The large scoring swing makes no sense until you see who the judge was on Saturday night -- the only judge all year who placed BD ahead of Cavaliers in GE Visual (and where did his wife march?).

Now, the swing in this caption was NOT the difference in who won or lost last night. BD earned their victory by being strong in all captions. Congratulations. Please don't take this as "sour grapes."

But what it does show is that the subjective, personal taste of one individual can have a BIG effect on scores. That is a problem that someone in this thread raised earlier, and is a very, very valid point.

At the DCI HQ party on Friday night, I spoke with several designers/instructors from three different top corps. Most of you would recognize the names. I was shocked that all three, independently, mentioned that they don't understand exactly what is being judged anymore, and why certain corps receive the scores they do in certain captions, including GE visual. And one of them -- who has been involved in the activity for over 25 years -- said that he/she feels that he/she needs to get out and do more "politicking" with the judges in order to get more favorable scores in the future. Scary.

This is the problem with the subjective judging criteria in place these days.

Edited August 13, 2007 by ChiBoyinLA