whitedawn Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 I totally love how when someone's corps loses its "Well, the judges had their minds made up already. The scores at finals night had nothing to do with the performances on teh field". (ie: judges don't know what they're talking about/were bought off/biased/etc)When their corps wins, they totally earned it. There were no politics involved, the judges totally knew what they were doing and were spot on. (By "their corps" I mean the one they're marching in or a fan of or just thought, in their opinion, should have won) you are totally misreading me. it isn't that the judges don't know what they are talking about, or were bought off, or biased, or anything like that. judges interpret the sheets in different ways. much like you or me can pretty much predict what the supreme court is going to do based on its membership, one can pretty correctly guess what the judges are going to do at finals once the panels have been announced. it isn't sour grapes -- it is a complete and total detachment from the competitive side of drum corps. sure, winning is cool, but the performers have NOTHING to do with the interpretations of the rules by the judges. this is why it doesn't do any good to worry about what the judges are going to do. do your part, and let the chips fall as they may. you win = you got really good (the objective part you control), and the stars aligned. (the subjective part you cannot control.) you lose = you got really good, and the the stars did not align. i personally won dci twice as a member. one time, the judges picked us almost by consensus and we "won" by quite a lot. the other time, one judge tried to call the show in a caption that has little if anything to do with the corps' performance, and we ended up tying. this is the way of the world of dci judging. seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlosvi7 Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 I was at finals. From what I got from it the crowd wasn't feeling the show. All throughout it all I heard were people saying, "why in the world are they talking." And even making some really rude remarks about the corps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randomnoise Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 Actually, I have seen Hopkins and other people mention how they can predict placements based on the panel. I don't think there is any claim either way (winning or not) but to say some judges like one thing better than the other, without much regard for performance issues (especially when talking about the top 2 corps). I think some of us would feel the same way regardless of who wins. I don't think it is sour grapes or griping, but just a fact of the current state of judging. Sure. As a staff member, you always know if the panel is going to be good for you or bad for you. There are not a lot of top 6 (or seven) instructors posting on here, so these threads are mostly the opinions of fans and former marching members. I wish we would see more instructors or former instructors post in these threads. Their opinions would help the folks who lack the staff perspective understand some of the things you really only get a grasp on after a few years (decades?) teaching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LAMystreaux Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 I was at finals. From what I got from it the crowd wasn't feeling the show. All throughout it all I heard were people saying, "why in the world are they talking." And even making some really rude remarks about the corps. I am assuming though that many of them would have never given that show a chance, regardless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Officer_Jenny Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 yes no Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 Sure. As a staff member, you always know if the panel is going to be good for you or bad for you. There are not a lot of top 6 (or seven) instructors posting on here, so these threads are mostly the opinions of fans and former marching members. I wish we would see more instructors or former instructors post in these threads. Their opinions would help the folks who lack the staff perspective understand some of the things you really only get a grasp on after a few years (decades?) teaching. It works the same in the competitive band world. As a staff member for a USSBA II Open band, we usually know how a particular panel will react to us, at least on a general level, when we are seeing judges for the nth time over a few years. When I was judging bands a lot, I KNOW certain bands wanted to see me and others....not so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LAMystreaux Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 no maybe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Brace Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 maybe let's settle on "perhaps!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
O.P. Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 Sure. As a staff member, you always know if the panel is going to be good for you or bad for you. There are not a lot of top 6 (or seven) instructors posting on here, so these threads are mostly the opinions of fans and former marching members. I wish we would see more instructors or former instructors post in these threads. Their opinions would help the folks who lack the staff perspective understand some of the things you really only get a grasp on after a few years (decades?) teaching. Randomnoise is correct. Having taught and fought with judges for several years at the highest levels, I can say that after a while your perspective evolves to an understanding of "subjective" that can be frustrating and enlightening. I was fiercely competitive and polemical in critiques and won two championships that way but now, having judged, I am convinced that was not the right way to go about it and won one with a different tack, one of respect. Granted there are those adjuticators who tend to favor their biases and as an instructor I knew who they were. At fist I thought those who scored my corps well to be smarter than the other judges but if I am honest now, realize they were inclined to favor my style. Granted, there were plenty of reasons to defend the decision. But our relationship was better than one in which a judge found another corps' style "better." Knowing this, slates can be "stacked" but it is never malevolent. It is what people believe. I take comfort in the fact that the winner is usually correct at 99% of the shows, ie, the majority agrees with the decision. Only an extreme condition such as a show in which the Cadets, Cavies or Devils compete against corps that wont make finals can there be a unanimous decision and then probably only statistically, since some parent would be loyal and unrelenting. But the truth is the systems DCI has had over the years select the best corps and have been modified not to do a better job (since it is not necssary) but to provide the corps greater freedom in which to design and perform, thus advancing the activity. It is risk that we seek. We need to be better losers as a whole, and this argument disipates. And while I hated to lose and still do, the blame is best directed internally for discovery as opposed to externally for denial for the record. The result would be better shows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skevinp Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 I didn't think we were going to win anyway lol. All I knew was we had faster feet than anyone else and a hornline that could take someones face off. I didn't think our downfall was our narration. Trust me our issues were not the narration, it was the same old field playing stories, playing together and holding the ensemble together, maintaining good forms and such. I personally knew the Blue Devils were going to win. I'll probably rely it on the fact that we had no ballad. It was 3 full productions back to back... again... 3 full productions, no legato piece at all. I internally felt that we had so much more to clean than the other drum corps. We had well over 200 direction changes as an ensemble (no not dots, direction changes, yes they're different), and as many of you know direction changes were were all the errors are going to happen.... so that explains itself. I thought we cleaned the show as best we could, seriously as best it could have gotten. I knew that we practice way more than any other corps and we basically went over the entire show top to bottom until exhaustion (the Standard Cadet way). Our 3rd day into finals week we practiced the closer the entire day, for like 14 hours. I thought my legs wouldn't move anymore lol. I seriously gave it my all with no regrets. If 2nd place was what we got, then it's what we got. After quarterfinals' fiasco I was expecting to get 3rd even. Thank you for this excellent post. Your honesty and objectivity show great maturity and set an outstanding example that many here would be wise to follow. Your statement "I seriously gave it my all with no regrets" is what I always thought the Cadets were all about, so it has been disheartening to hear all the "should have" bickering, and your post is a shot in the arm and chicken soup for the sould of a drum corps fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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