What place would Bucs take at DCI Championships?

[markdewine]

Here's a thought...

In 42 years of following the drum corps activity, I could count the shows I've seen that were terrible, on both hands. All the rest were good, great, or excellant.

Sure, winning is great, but too many nowdays are too concerned with "downplaying" all but the winners.

And slightly off-topic, but still related...When I was first introduced to this activity, I was taught to temper my pride with modesty. We were told to "stand tall" on the field at retreat, no matter the placement. And to keep the "braggin' and complaining" within the corps. Let the corps' accomplishments speak for it's self.

[Martybucs]

When I first read this thread – it read as a deep complement to the Bucs for being mentioned in the same sentence as a DCI corps. For that thank you. However, the premise of the comparison is so absurd that I can’t even formulate words to adequately convey my sense of absurdity.

Of course we (and other corps) couldn’t hold a candle to that kind of finished product as exists in DCI at the end of their season. End of story.

Blech...Ptooieeee. Razzzafrazzzzaaaaa DCI Lover, yukkkka, bleh.

^0^

[TomMoore]

I think we all need to get out of the house a bit more often, or at least step away from our computers.

[Martybucs]

I think we all need to get out of the house a bit more often, or at least step away from our computers.

I knew it, I knew your post would not be far behind. :P

[TomMoore]

I knew it, I knew your post would not be far behind. :P

I aim to please, Marty!

It's an interesting hypothetical, but I think Dale (I think it was Dale) hit the nail on the head -- it's an issue of rehearsal time. I can assure you that the DCI-eligible members of the Bucs this year were every bit as intense, focused, committed as their older corpsmates. What this group was able to squeeze out of every minute of rehearsal time, with the help of the staff, of course, was amazing. Given the intensity, I think "immature" younger people would either mature quickly or realize that the activity -- or this particular corps -- was not for them.

I'm quite frankly amazed at what DCA corps can achieve with such a compressed time schedule. I think that achievement is a function of program, teaching, organization and, of course, the abilities of the members. I think it has much less to do with the age of the members. I know some teenagers who can knock the socks off people twice their age in terms of their rehearsal etiquette, musicianship and maturity.

[Martybucs]

I aim to please, Marty!

It's an interesting hypothetical, but I think Dale (I think it was Dale) hit the nail on the head -- it's an issue of rehearsal time. I can assure you that the DCI-eligible members of the Bucs this year were every bit as intense, focused, committed as their older corpsmates. What this group was able to squeeze out of every minute of rehearsal time, with the help of the staff, of course, was amazing. Given the intensity, I think "immature" younger people would either mature quickly or realize that the activity -- or this particular corps -- was not for them.

I'm quite frankly amazed at what DCA corps can achieve with such a compressed time schedule. I think that achievement is a function of program, teaching, organization and, of course, the abilities of the members. I think it has much less to do with the age of the members. I know some teenagers who can knock the socks off people twice their age in terms of their rehearsal etiquette, musicianship and maturity.

Well, I said it was a matter of rehearsal time I think on page 1 or 2. OK I just checked - post#2

I agree with you, mostly. I also know some pretty talented teenagers, I think we all do, that are wise and mature beyond their years and very good and motivated at what they do, but the people twice their age whose socks they're knocking off usually aren't all that impressive.

This was a post about Bucs making DCI finals and as with all DCP posts it took an interesting turn in discussion as to relative quality of DCA vs DCI. I don't think that is meant to be a judgement of Bucs, DCA, or DCI for or against . It's just an off topic discussion that happened to take place here and is meant as a general discourse.

The original topic about Bucs making finals at DCI would've ended on page 1.

Edited September 5, 2007 by Martybucs

[Geneva]

I am a Bucs alumni and fan, and would like to congratulate them on yet another a well-deserved DCA Championship!

However, in regards to the hyppothetical question at hand -- IMO, the Buccaneers would have no chance of making DCI Finals. The reason for this is not the level of demand or excellence of the corps, which is very close to DCI level in many respects. Rather, I believe that any DCA corps that has an identity that is so close to an existing DCI finalist corps, would pale in comparison to the real thing in direct head-to-head competition. Although a few DCA corps simply take a junior corps show and call it their own and it works fine in DCA competition, this show design approach would not stand up in DCI.

Again, this is not a slam on anyone ... just a note on the hypothetical competitive DCA/DCI match-up.

I agree with this assessment. In DCI the degree of success which is awarded has as much to do with program design as it does with excellence of performance. This, in my opinion, is why there is very little movement in placings in DCI as the season progresses since the units get slotted according the judges' assessment of their programmatic strength. I really doubt that the actual performances are that consistently similar amongst the DCI corps, but these variances are simply not reflected on the sheets to the degree that they occur on the field. The sheets are entirely too subjective.

But to get back to the question at hand, the Bucs would not fare well competing in DCI because they use too many show concepts borrowed from DCI, but executed better by those corps...and this is not a slam on the Bucs. I would be proud to march in a unit of their quality.

[Martybucs]

I agree with this assessment. In DCI the degree of success which is awarded has as much to do with program design as it does with excellence of performance. This, in my opinion, is why there is very little movement in placings in DCI as the season progresses since the units get slotted according the judges' assessment of their programmatic strength. I really doubt that the actual performances are that consistently similar amongst the DCI corps, but these variances are simply not reflected on the sheets to the degree that they occur on the field. The sheets are entirely too subjective.

But to get back to the question at hand, the Bucs would not fare well competing in DCI because they use too many show concepts borrowed from DCI, but executed better by those corps...and this is not a slam on the Bucs. I would be proud to march in a unit of their quality.

Hmmmm. I see your point more clearly than the way Lee presented it. That in mind, I kind of agree with you, but when I watch a DCI top 12 show, am I the only one noticing the mistakes? Maybe it's just a glass half full/half empty thing with me and I see it the way I want, like anyone else.

True enough, it is kind of sad to see a small corps or one lacking in ability try to pull off some DCI moves. However, by season's end Bucs show was pretty darn clean and pretty close in execution to the lower tier of DCI divI corps. I do think finals would be a long shot.

My original counter to this question had to deal with whether a DCI corps given the same limitations as a DCA corps would make DCA finals. Talent wise there are many individuals that could easily perform at DCA levels, (heck, I'm overweight and 54 and I think I could pull it off)mmmmmaybe not, anyway, the question is whether a DCI CORPS could pull off a DCA championship show given the same limitations/hardships most DCA corps face. If you keep that perspective then you see how truly remarkable DCA corps are.

Besides, I think DCA is about as close to DCI, in performance style, as I would ever want to see it get.

DCA corps are like the desperados of drum corps - keep it that way.

Did I just ramble?

[ech2os]

I remember going to the Hershey show in 2004. Hawthorne was big that year if I remember correctly. I loved their show. I love Hawthorne. But I also remember the uncomfortable feeling I had when I realized the difference between their hornline and BD when followed up by the Blue Devils that day. It was quite stark.

Having said that.......if I had to attend a drum corps show with my eyes closed I would chose a DCA show every day of the week.

[Martybucs]

And that statement qualifies you to say what, exactly? Have you instructed a senior corps brass line, as Marty has done? I've also played in an adult community symphony band. It was nothing compared to standing in the brass line in any senior corps I've been a part of. I've witnessed the City of Fairfax Band, which is one of the best community bands there is. Not very close to even lesser DCA corps music ensembles.

Oh, I think you'd find MikeD has some qualifications way better than mine. We always differ on DC style issues, though. Usually about what actually qualifies as "drum and bugle" corps.

Fairfax Band is great. I was principle trumpet/cornet with Chester County Concert Band for about 10 years, as well as a stint as band president and a lot of people liked to compare the two bands. Think CCCB has a link to Fairfax on their site.

However, Community band and drum corps, talk about your apples and oranges. Community band drill always sucks :P