What place would Bucs take at DCI Championships?

[MikeD]

The vapidity of your arguments....and nothing more.

You seem to think that mere opinion carries more weight than a reasonable argument. At least show some respect to other people's judgements by countering them with some sound reasoning and an example or two to flesh it out. Marty's post about the subtlety or lack thereof in mature vs young players had a whole lot more to it than whether one was was around adult performers.

Simply sputtering, "B-b-b-but, I do too hang around adults! Your opinion sucks!" isn't a valid response. If you want to debate, debate. I'm all for that. But, at least bring something to the table besides, "I know you are, but what am I?"

I disagree with his take. That's MHO. You don't like what I say? Fine. But I hope I don't stoop to calling Marty, you or anyone elses POV vapid and/or stupid.

The members of DCI div I corps are not raw beginners as the posts here imply. A 20-year-old has been playing his/her horn/percussion instrument for 10 years or more, for the most part. And...these are the dedicated cream-of-the crop who pass the audition process. They aren't the low level the posts seem to try and say.

I fail to see how one has to downplay one group in order to pump up another. Both do great things. The Buccs have been amazing the past few years, as have Bush, the Cabs, and others I have seen.

[Martybucs]

I disagree with his take. That's MHO. You don't like what I say? Fine. But I hope I don't stoop to calling Marty, you or anyone elses POV vapid and/or stupid.

The members of DCI div I corps are not raw beginners as the posts here imply. A 20-year-old has been playing his/her horn/percussion instrument for 10 years or more, for the most part. And...these are the dedicated cream-of-the crop who pass the audition process. They aren't the low level the posts seem to try and say.

I fail to see how one has to downplay one group in order to pump up another. Both do great things. The Buccs have been amazing the past few years, as have Bush, the Cabs, and others I have seen.

Didn't say they were "raw beginners" just less experienced than most DCA performers. They are not all - the "cream of the crop" or were you watching a different DCI than I was last night.

All I did was point out that experience makes a difference, usually for the better, when it come to performance and most DCA corps are loaded with experienced performers - 20 - 30 years as opposed to 10 years in school situations.

I don't see this as a slam against DCI corps. It's just a fact that I acknowledge. I'm not downplaying DCI to pump up DCA. I merely made an observation in my post and you disagreed with me. No surprise there.

They are indeed both good and given a DCI type of show, I don't think any senior could make the top of DCI.

It actually pains me to see DCA corps try to pull off a DCI style show. I don't think it's really what the fans want, given the enthusiastic response that Cabs Alumni, Royal Airs and Kingsmen get.

[bumo27]

Marty - we're not pulling off "CURRENT" DCI shows that people are bored with these days - we're pulling off DCI shows that A LOT of people loved in the past - shows that have been tested for GOOD entertainment value. It SUCKS ROYALLY when these shows are played note for note, especially when percussion parts are stolen from DCI corps. That just shows a tremendous lack of creativity. Stolen shows suck, IN MY OPINION.

It PAINS you though? Seriously. <_<

Edited September 6, 2007 by bumo27

[GuyW]

...It actually pains me to see DCA corps try to pull off a DCI style show. I don't think it's really what the fans want, given the enthusiastic response that Cabs Alumni, Royal Airs and Kingsmen get.

Yeah, I think all the alumni corps ought to enter DCA competitions, just as their show "is".

I believe that fan pressure over a 2-4 year span can turn DCA around, but not when the old school corps simply abandon the field of battle to the DCI bands.

[Brent]

Well said Brent. I think it's there for all to see. How many years will it take for Div. 2/3 to go away?

Just stirring the pot

As long as there is value in an association it will stay around. In this day and age there are so many great competitions in DCI and Marching Band, that the venue and amount of participating units makes a huge difference in the success of the shows. I taught North Force and Capital Sound, so I really value the Div. II/III experience.

I believe that shows need to have about 12-75 units to be successful. Plus, units want to perform for large crowds. How many units will travel 10-30 hours to perform or compete in front of 500 people?

I think that DCA would find the feasibility of larger Regional competitions would benefit the corps and the association to a larger degree. Two large regionals in the NE, one in the SE, one in the SW, one on the West Coast and one in the Midwest around Chicago. The smaller shows would still have their place, but in this way DCA can start spreading their brand and guarantee that enough people will come to pay for the venue.

I believe there are fine units in DCA. Some could compete with Div. I on captions, but not at the top 12 level. I used to believe differently.

[Martybucs]

Marty - we're not pulling off "CURRENT" DCI shows that people are bored with these days - we're pulling off DCI shows that A LOT of people loved in the past - shows that have been tested for GOOD entertainment value. It SUCKS ROYALLY when these shows are played note for note, especially when percussion parts are stolen from DCI corps. That just shows a tremendous lack of creativity. Stolen shows suck, IN MY OPINION.

It PAINS you though? Seriously. <_<

Well, a few corps can pull it off, but all of them try and they have no choice, but few succeed. I would say all their efforts are good and the shows are entertaining, but the differences are apparent.

I think the Buccaneers were lucky to have the staff and the performers to pull off a DCI style show that was close to the real thing. Now to me, the other corps were good also, but not even close to DCI standards and that isn't apparent by the scores.

Yes, it pains me. Today's corps don't march anymore. They scurry and dance. That's better left to the svelte, ideal body types of DCI. If I were to march it would have to be DCA. I'm 5'10" and weigh 230lbs. Do you really want to see me scurry and dance on the field? There are people built like me doing it. I applaud their free spirit.

In the 70s and early 80s when I was on the field with Bucs, I used to love to watch Skyliners show. They didn't scurry or dance - they marched, played their instruments and I loved the way every fat, thin, tall, short, skinny, ugly one of them did it. Same with the rest of DCA from that period.

Is that the sound of egg shells breaking? - the heck with it, I'll throw the whole dozen down and pay for them.

[MikeD]

Didn't say they were "raw beginners" just less experienced than most DCA performers. They are not all - the "cream of the crop" or were you watching a different DCI than I was last night.

Here is one quote from you in this thread...

I think you are "totally wrong" in denying the differences in performance between novices and experienced players.

How else should I take that?

[drumlaw80]

Marty - we're not pulling off "CURRENT" DCI shows that people are bored with these days - we're pulling off DCI shows that A LOT of people loved in the past - shows that have been tested for GOOD entertainment value.

Why? Why spend your summer trying to pull off a DCI show note-for-note? I don't get it, I really don't.

There is a lot of world-class talent on DCA design teams. Why not come up with an original show and image that the DCA fans will love? Picking some DCI music or ideas is fine, but I do not understand why a DCA show designer would want to spend his or her entire summer endlessly recreating a DCI show note-for-note. That's what a marching band with a bad staff does, becuase they have no choice. At the end of the day, such a corps is not taking advantage of the talent on their design team ... and all DCA corps have world-class DCI level talent on their staff, if not moreso.

This is not a slam on any staff -- in fact, it's the opposite. I would like to see what they could really do. I simply don't watch DCA corps that just try to recreate DCI. Been there, done that. IMO, the 2007 Cabs are a great example of a DCA corps taking music that has been done in DCI, and doing it in such a way that it comes across as the Caballeros, and no one else. Win, lose or draw ... there is no other corps in the world you could mistake the Cabs for this year.

[Martybucs]

Here is one quote from you in this thread...

How else should I take that?

Ummmm, novices don't have as much experience?

[Martybucs]

Why? Why spend your summer trying to pull off a DCI show note-for-note? I don't get it, I really don't.

Yeah, who's doing that? I want names! There are copyright laws ya know! :P