Those unhappy with narration, woodwinds, et al...

[MikeD]

How many hundreds of thousands was that again, Mike? Because I seem to remember it shooting from 200 to 400 in the course of a single discussion a few weeks back, depending on how good we need the figures to look.

That wasn't my number. Someone else posted it a while back. I'll take 200,000 if that is the number you want to use. I'm on their side.

[JimF-LowBari]

So, the reason for the choice of bugles-only was cost. (Was that all?) But, then again the vets' orgs that started corps also started bands. At the competitions, were these all in the same division? Or were there different divisions for band and DC?

Totally different divisions based on what I see on Rons site (www.srcorps.com) and History of Drum Corps book. Band results only given for AL in 1920s/1930s and no idea when the band competition stopped.

Apparently, there was some difference in the relative abilities of the DC musicians vs the band musicians, based upon Jim's statements: " ... easier to train vets with no musical knowledge. ... The learning to read bugle music part is a hoot to anyone with musical training" with the bands being the more sophisticated of the two. At some point in the timeline, the two kinds of groups switched places on that scale.

Don't forget the initial post WW I corps used straight bugles so lot less notes to worry about. The 1930 booklet has some charts that were (barely) getting away from the "everyone plays the same notes" era. Around then the baritone (bar-o-tone) straight bugle was being introduced and a "crook" could be inserted in the lead pipe to allow some horns to play only the valve 1 notes.

Just light years away from what todays corps or bands of any era could do.

Edit: Oh yeah, some reasons why the (new) AL posts created a drum corps was to give the members something to do and a way to present the corps to the community (like a fraternal organization). Also it gave posts in little communities a chance to compete against big city posts on an even footing. (Check out some of the early AL/VFW corps town names - where in Hades is Sleepy Eye, MN anyway Well for that matter where the heck is Hanover, PA?).

Edited March 4, 2008 by JimF-3rdBari

[Dale Bari]

Totally different divisions based on what I see on Rons site (www.srcorps.com) and History of Drum Corps book. Band results only given for AL in 1920s/1930s and no idea when the band competition stopped.

Don't forget the initial post WW I corps used straight bugles so lot less notes to worry about. The 1930 booklet has some charts that were (barely) getting away from the "everyone plays the same notes" era. Around then the baritone (bar-o-tone) straight bugle was being introduced and a "crook" could be inserted in the lead pipe to allow some horns to play only the valve 1 notes.

Just light years away from what todays corps or bands of any era could do.

Edit: Oh yeah, some reasons why the (new) AL posts created a drum corps was to give the members something to do and a way to present the corps to the community (like a fraternal organization). Also it gave posts in little communities a chance to compete against big city posts on an even footing. (Check out some of the early AL/VFW corps town names - where in Hades is Sleepy Eye, MN anyway Well for that matter where the heck is Hanover, PA?).

So, to sum up this little history lesson: bands and corps were started for something to do; low cost attracted groups to bugles; bands and corps were different divisions; corps musicians weren't as sophisticated as band musicians.

Does anyone want to question that?

[GuyW]

So, to sum up....corps musicians weren't as sophisticated as band musicians.

Does anyone want to question that?

Well, I'd assume that the VFW and Legion corps were drawing from pretty much the same pool as their VFW and Legion bands, so I'd speculate both groups were equally unsophisticated at the start.

Whether the band players availed themselves of other music education is unknowable, as is the question of whether DC kids also took on music education in trumpet, etc. My perception is that additional academic percussion education worth describing didn't exist for either group.

[JimF-LowBari]

Well, I'd assume that the VFW and Legion corps were drawing from pretty much the same pool as their VFW and Legion bands, so I'd speculate both groups were equally unsophisticated at the start.

Note to self: After I retire check this idea out (and buy Guy a cold one).....

Totally unsupported theory (IOW pulling this one outta my butt). Perhaps the Posts with bands had a larger membership and/or pot to pay for all this stuff. Or they recruited vets with musical backgrounds. Came up with the first idea after looking at the 1929 Conn band ad with AL Post #27 from Harrisburg, PA. Picture shows a sharp dressed group posing outside in what appears to be one of the better sections on the city at the time. (Asked my parents where this defunct Post was and they got into an argument as they disagreed. ) The again you had towns like Hershey (AL corps started 1926) and Hanover (AL corps started 1920) with fewer local vets to pull from.

Whether the band players availed themselves of other music education is unknowable, as is the question of whether DC kids also took on music education in trumpet, etc. My perception is that additional academic percussion education worth describing didn't exist for either group.

Oh yeah, in the 1930 manual there are also snare and bass drum instructions with plenty of pictures. Have another booklet that shows how the DM should use the mace.