cowtown Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 The whole dutting thing has really been a bone of contention with me for a few years now. As a music judge I have found it to be very unmusical. Also in this day and age of groups wanting to recieve credit for demand, I tell some groups to get rid of the human metronomes and maybe credit could be given. I believe at one point it served some purpose with a group who had a hard time cleaning a section of music. Now I believe groups use it to the point of being a "visual" It draws unneeded attention to the group.I saw a band in Western NY who used dutting in a very pretty lyrical musical moment. I was absolutely disgusted with it and let them know that on the tape Well stated – a corps spends all this time on musicality and then kills it with a distracting dut..dut…dut on top of it, Which is also admittance to the lack of musicality – ability to individually keep time I can hear it, so it should be judged Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slow Adam Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 Which is also admittance to the lack of musicality – ability to individually keep time I wonder if the people in this thread who make broad statements like this have actually experienced the audio cluster#### that drummers deal with hanging out at the back of the field for most of the show. I wonder why THEY aren't running the world's best drum lines, since apparently the guys teaching now aren't that great if their lines can't play together without dutting. Yes, dutting can be louder than necessary sometimes, and I can understand people taking issue with it being heard in the stands, but to suggest that it is a crutch or an admittance of any sort, other than a desire to enter clean and in time, is ludicrous. Seriously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madscout96 Posted November 7, 2007 Author Share Posted November 7, 2007 Many drumlines went sans dut for decades without having this attack problem. Dutting is a crutch. ^0^ Did you read any of the arguments presented by people who say why it is necessary? Those drumlines that went without duts for decades and were clean did not have the tempo and staging demands that drumlines do today. Dutting is not a crutch any more than yardlines and hashes are crutches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowtown Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 yes no - don't like teaching never said the 'teachers now aren't that great' it is a crutch or you can even call it a tool. it’s not musical and takes away from musicality maybe you should review the thread and read that bit about whether or not crutches are a bad thing? seriously Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stifled4mallettechnique Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 I wonder if the people in this thread who make broad statements like this have actually experienced the audio cluster#### that drummers deal with hanging out at the back of the field for most of the show. I wonder why THEY aren't running the world's best drum lines, since apparently the guys teaching now aren't that great if their lines can't play together without dutting.Yes, dutting can be louder than necessary sometimes, and I can understand people taking issue with it being heard in the stands, but to suggest that it is a crutch or an admittance of any sort, other than a desire to enter clean and in time, is ludicrous. Seriously. Does anyone know where the "Captain Obvious" smiley is? I'm about to need it. It just MIGHT be possible that if the drummers (and others, but this is a response...) weren't put in places and configurations that made things so difficult, they wouldn't need to "dut" to get through it. So why are they put there? To look cool? Not necessarily. To make it harder for mom to pinpoint them from the stands? I doubt it. I'm guessing they are put into more difficult situations to earn more points. Obviously, since there is no penalty for degrading the quality of the show by "dutting", and since winning is more important than quality product and/or education, corps are going to reach beyong their grasp and compensate with a crutch. As I asked in an earlier thread, and I didn't see a response for some reason, Is a "crutch" a bad thing? It must be, or you people wouldn't dismiss the word so indignantly. As to your question about why those opposed to your point of view aren't running drumlines.... I'll bypass the obvious myriad of responses and ask you this: Have you ever bowled a 300 game? Do you know a gutterball when you see one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowtown Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 Did you read any of the arguments presented by people who say why it is necessary? Those drumlines that went without duts for decades and were clean did not have the tempo and staging demands that drumlines do today. Let’s move this in to a more concrete area – if a diver tries to over achieve by doing a difficult dive they are not fully capable of successfully completing in competition, they will get hammered in scores. Sure, they’ll get points for trying a higher degree of difficulty but they’ll get nailed for executing poorly. Duts is trying to do a higher degree of difficulty and not really having the ability If you need duts to keep it together, the drill is poorly staged and written to the music or they corps is trying to over achieve. To much slop is now accepted on the field in the name of ‘its so difficult’ and to that I say…then its badly designed and you, the designer, are not teaching the kids well enough no as for the faster tempos... Slower tempos offer more exposure and corps today often avoid them, they can’t clean it as well as everything thing is magnified – so spare me the fast tempo = harder, its just different. Not harder, not easier, neither better nor worse -just different with a different demand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowtown Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 (edited) oh, the poster above me said what I was going to say but said it better (started the post took a phone call and finished the post, submit) so you could skip my first post but seeing that order matters and this is after it, its too late and now I just wasted another minute of your life Edited November 7, 2007 by cowtown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHSnare Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 It does not bother me because dutting can make a clean entrance and phrase sound very musically pleasing to the ear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleu Raeder Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 (edited) Did you read any of the arguments presented by people who say why it is necessary? Those drumlines that went without duts for decades and were clean did not have the tempo and staging demands that drumlines do today. Dutting is not a crutch any more than yardlines and hashes are crutches. I did read the arguements and I would beg to differ on tempo and staging demands. Listen to and watch drum corps of the 70's and 80's where vocalization was not allowed and you will see drill demands and tempos like those of today. I think at this point we can all agree to disagree, some do not mind them, others do and each side has valid arguements for and against. Edited November 7, 2007 by Bleu Raeder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitedawn Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 Duts is trying to do a higher degree of difficulty and not really having the ability its a tool for maintaining and interpreting time. just like yardlines and hash marks and the guy next to you are tools for maintaining and interpreting shape and form. If you need duts to keep it together, the drill is poorly staged and written to the music or they corps is trying to over achieve. To much slop is now accepted on the field in the name of ‘its so difficult’ and to that I say…then its badly designed and you, the designer, are not teaching the kids well enough yes. exactly. i propose that we pass a rule at the meeting in january -- all battery percussion must be staged on the fifty yard line at all times. this way, we will eliminate all those annoying vocalizations in favor of clean attacks and easier parts. in fact, i think we should go back to piston/rotor horns and the tick system. this "artistic" revolution that has been in full swing for 25 years must be stopped before it becomes the norm. we just can't afford to have corps trying new things. Slower tempos offer more exposure and corps today often avoid them, they can’t clean it as well as everything thing is magnified – so spare me the fast tempo = harder, its just different. Not harder, not easier, neither better nor worse -just different with a different demand this is correct, but have you ever had to make a unison entrance at 192 bpm while taking a 6:5? there's got to be something there to unify interpretation of timing. yeah its possible that 20 people will come in perfectly together, but why not make it a sure thing every time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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