hboyce Posted December 9, 2007 Share Posted December 9, 2007 I find that statement potentially misleading.Truth is, some fans leave over objectionable rule changes. So when you see dissent about a rule change fade over time, that is not necessarily dissenters changing their minds, but just plain departing. I wasn't implying 100% of fans. My statement doesn't sound misleading to me. Over the past 8 years with some of the more controversial rule changes the numbers of fans haven't decreased much (they probably haven't increased much either, but that is besides the point). So I would have to assume that the majority of fans accept the new rules at some point and those that don't are replaced by the new fans the activity receives every year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrumCorpsFan27 Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 I am looking at those numbers right now - paid attendance for 1994 through 2007 - and I don't see what you see. Straight forward data not manipulated in any way. (One caveat - I know that since 1996, DCI has made a point of reporting paid attendance when they publish these numbers. I cannot vouch for 1994 & 95 - those numbers may be total attendance.)You say that Semifinals has dropped during these years - I am looking at those numbers right now - Madison in 2006 has the highest Semifinals attendance of any of those years. 2007 in Pasedena was 2nd highest, Denver in 2004 was 3rd highest. I'm not seeing what you are seeing - I don't understand how you can describe that as "dropped". You say that Quarterfinals have been flat. Denver in 2004 - #1, 2007 in Pasadena - #2, Madison in 2006 - #3. (And if you want to keep going: Madison in 2002 - #4; Foxboro in 2005 - #5...) If all of the most recent years are the highest, that seems to me to be growth. As for Finals, 6 years out of that reporting period of 14 years have a reported attendance of 20,000 or higher. 1994, 2002, 2004, 2005, 2006 and 2007. Where is the recent decline of which you speak? There are dozens of reasons why attendance at a specific event is up or down from one given year to another. You keep trying to say, if I am reading you right, that the rules change allowing amps and narration in 2004 has caused a decline in attendance. I don't see a cause and effect relationship between any one rule change and any attendance results - it is just one factor in a far more complex situation. Beyond that, I do not see a declining trend in attendance over the years with the data that is available (1994 - 2007) - I see attendance that appears to me to be increasing in recent years compared to the years immediately preceding them. Well, with 10 years in Indy, you will be able to look at trends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slow Adam Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 Attendance at Division II & III shows during Championship week from year to year is very volatile. There are a lot of reasons that happens.Division II & III Finals in Madison spiked up from previous years. Most likely reason was the buzz around the Academy. There may be other reasons as well. Other reasons...like not shipping II/III off to a high school sized stadium with metal bleachers and limited viewing height. In 2007 the best stadium II/III saw was Bakersfield. PCC was terrible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarimbasaurusRex Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 Forgive me if this point has been mentioned already. I made it through about 7 pages before starting to nod off... It's important to note that drum corps is NOT show business. The primary source of income for any drum corps is member fees, not ticket sales (as is the case for professional sports or theater). Drum corps is for the members on the field, not the fans in the stands. We pay a fee to watch what they do, but that provides only a small fraction of income for the corps. As long as this is the case, fans will not be a major part of the rules equation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssorrell Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 It's important to note that drum corps is NOT show business. The primary source of income for any drum corps is member fees, not ticket sales (as is the case for professional sports or theater). Drum corps is for the members on the field, not the fans in the stands. We pay a fee to watch what they do, but that provides only a small fraction of income for the corps. As long as this is the case, fans will not be a major part of the rules equation. Ahhh....but even back when member fees were not the most major source of income, say back in the mid 80s and before...when appearance fees (which comes from ticket sales) and even souvenir sales gave corps more income than other sources, the rules process was the same as it is now. So, even though the primary source of income may have changed with corps' higher member fees, the system perhaps was flawed, at least in the context of this thread, from the get go as the general fan has never been a factor in rules changes or proposals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 Ahhh....but even back when member fees were not the most major source of income, say back in the mid 80s and before...when appearance fees (which comes from ticket sales) and even souvenir sales gave corps more income than other sources, the rules process was the same as it is now. So, even though the primary source of income may have changed with corps' higher member fees, the system perhaps was flawed, at least in the context of this thread, from the get go as the general fan has never been a factor in rules changes or proposals. Nor were they in the old days of the VFW and AL. There is no single set of 'fans' to have a factor in the rules changes. The spectrum of likes and dislikes covers every permutation amd combination possible on a given topic. The BOD, made up of corps directors and at-large members (4?), are charged with making the rules. That's fie by me. They have done a fine job so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euponitone Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 Forgive me if this point has been mentioned already. I made it through about 7 pages before starting to nod off...It's important to note that drum corps is NOT show business. The primary source of income for any drum corps is member fees, not ticket sales (as is the case for professional sports or theater). Drum corps is for the members on the field, not the fans in the stands. We pay a fee to watch what they do, but that provides only a small fraction of income for the corps. As long as this is the case, fans will not be a major part of the rules equation. Is that really true? Im just asking, but i always remember being told that member dues were well under half of what we needed to get down the road. I guess it might vary from corps to corps, and now that i think about it, dues are probably the single biggest piece of income for the corps. Doesnt really change the argument anyway...just a thought Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrumCorpsFan27 Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 Forgive me if this point has been mentioned already. I made it through about 7 pages before starting to nod off...It's important to note that drum corps is NOT show business. The primary source of income for any drum corps is member fees, not ticket sales (as is the case for professional sports or theater). Drum corps is for the members on the field, not the fans in the stands. We pay a fee to watch what they do, but that provides only a small fraction of income for the corps. As long as this is the case, fans will not be a major part of the rules equation. Ah, the ignorance of this statement. If drum corps is truly about music education, then part of the education is considering your audience. If there were no audience, there would be no drum corps. The two go hand-in-hand. Perhaps if drum corps was able to sell more tickets, they wouldn't need to depend on the members so much to fund the activity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrumCorpsFan27 Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 Nor were they in the old days of the VFW and AL. There is no single set of 'fans' to have a factor in the rules changes. The spectrum of likes and dislikes covers every permutation amd combination possible on a given topic. The BOD, made up of corps directors and at-large members (4?), are charged with making the rules. That's fie by me. They have done a fine job so far. When it comes to voting, how much say do those at-large members get? Oh that's right, none. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 When it comes to voting, how much say do those at-large members get?Oh that's right, none. They have the same say in voting as any member of the BOD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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