Plagerization of Drum Corps

[Martybucs]

When someone does a song, either writes it or arranges it, some things are obvious. A certain type of phrasing or dynamic.

It stands to reason that two or more independent arrangements could be made of the same song and have striking similarities.

Same with visuals. A certain song has a big climax with a strong hit to it. The horns build into it, the drums build into it, the drill was written up to it and when it happens...BANG! the corps is full to the stands, triple forte and the rifles make an amazing toss and the guard is doing stunning moves and the crowd goes wild.

Next corps does the same song. When it gets to the climax, BANG! they're full into the stands, the rifles do an amazing toss and the guard does a stunning move and the crowd goes wild.

People are murmering, "well, who copied who?"

Amazingly a third corps plays the same song. When it gets to the big climax, they play it double pianissamo, backfield, the rifles do a spin move and the guard does a little hop in the air with a small flourish. The crowd sits on their hands.

People murmer, "at least they didn't copy the first two corps to play the song!"

Of course, the first two corps seem like they copied one another. Maybe certain phrases are or seem identical in their writing. Doesn't mean it was copied. It just means they're similar. Two people heard the same piece and thought the same thing when they arranged it. It's going to happen.

[TAFL]

One thing I have noticed in this thread - I don't think that there was a response from and Management personnel (other than Lee) and none from music arrangers and drill creators.

The input that these people would be able to give are the most important and informative. Knowing their mindset and reasons are key. As either marching members or the viewing public, we perform what we are given. It may be a note-for-note rendition, modified, or even an original composition. Same for a drill.

Well, I can't speak to any creative decisions regarding using music some other corps has done. I also doubt I register on most radar screens as anything approaching "notable arranger." I can offer up information on how I approach thing, if you'd care to hear it, though. Ask some specific questions (I've only been skimming the thread) if you'd like to hear my thoughts.

TAFL

[TAFL]

One last(?) comment on this thread.

Why do shows have to have a title? "Back-in-the-day" no titles were used. Then, as today, all shows could be called - " songs that seem to work together". Unless you were doing a complete Broadway show, Opera, Movie,etc., that is really what it is.

Wish someone would have the nerve to admit it.

Well, for us, I coughed up a hairball...erm, title only because I wanted to be able to give one if somebody asked. The titles have been pretty obvious, too. The show of Beatles tunes we planned was called "That Beatles Show!" because I figured that's how people would describe it when leaving the show. (That an actual theme was found after the tunes picked was happenstance.) The new show also has an obvious title--"Tent Meeting Revival"--because it's a collection of hymns and spirituals of the sort one might have heard at an itinerant revival meeting.

Beyond that, yeah, we just look for a collection of tunes that seem to work together well. That doesn't make for a catchy title, though.

I suspect the junior corps have gone to titles and themes in pursuit of "higher Art" or some such....

TAFL

[iPlaydaTuba]

When someone does a song, either writes it or arranges it, some things are obvious. A certain type of phrasing or dynamic.

It stands to reason that two or more independent arrangements could be made of the same song and have striking similarities.

Same with visuals. A certain song has a big climax with a strong hit to it. The horns build into it, the drums build into it, the drill was written up to it and when it happens...BANG! the corps is full to the stands, triple forte and the rifles make an amazing toss and the guard is doing stunning moves and the crowd goes wild.

Next corps does the same song. When it gets to the climax, BANG! they're full into the stands, the rifles do an amazing toss and the guard does a stunning move and the crowd goes wild.

People are murmering, "well, who copied who?"

Amazingly a third corps plays the same song. When it gets to the big climax, they play it double pianissamo, backfield, the rifles do a spin move and the guard does a little hop in the air with a small flourish. The crowd sits on their hands.

People murmer, "at least they didn't copy the first two corps to play the song!"

Of course, the first two corps seem like they copied one another. Maybe certain phrases are or seem identical in their writing. Doesn't mean it was copied. It just means they're similar. Two people heard the same piece and thought the same thing when they arranged it. It's going to happen.

But entire shows with the same songs as top dci shows in the last 10 years? Yeah if they played one piece in their show that was similar to another show, I doubt anyone would be upset, but when whole shows become a mixture of dci favorite shows, then I believe its crossing the line

[Fran Haring]

When someone does a song, either writes it or arranges it, some things are obvious. A certain type of phrasing or dynamic.

It stands to reason that two or more independent arrangements could be made of the same song and have striking similarities.

Same with visuals. A certain song has a big climax with a strong hit to it. The horns build into it, the drums build into it, the drill was written up to it and when it happens...BANG! the corps is full to the stands, triple forte and the rifles make an amazing toss and the guard is doing stunning moves and the crowd goes wild.

Next corps does the same song. When it gets to the climax, BANG! they're full into the stands, the rifles do an amazing toss and the guard does a stunning move and the crowd goes wild.

People are murmering, "well, who copied who?"

Amazingly a third corps plays the same song. When it gets to the big climax, they play it double pianissamo, backfield, the rifles do a spin move and the guard does a little hop in the air with a small flourish. The crowd sits on their hands.

People murmer, "at least they didn't copy the first two corps to play the song!"

Of course, the first two corps seem like they copied one another. Maybe certain phrases are or seem identical in their writing. Doesn't mean it was copied. It just means they're similar. Two people heard the same piece and thought the same thing when they arranged it. It's going to happen.

Good points, Marty.

In 1998, both Buccaneers and Sunrisers played "Festive Overture" for their opener. Now, there's only so much you can do with "Festive Overture" ...after all, it's a pretty well-known tune....without turning it into something unrecognizable...."Not-So-Festive Overture" perhaps......LOL. So the arrangements were similar. No big deal.

Fran

[iPlaydaTuba]

Good points, Marty.

In 1998, both Buccaneers and Sunrisers played "Festive Overture" for their opener. Now, there's only so much you can do with "Festive Overture" ...after all, it's a pretty well-known tune....without turning it into something unrecognizable...."Not-So-Festive Overture" perhaps......LOL. So the arrangements were similar. No big deal.

Fran

Woo Hoo! Wonderful that the arrangements of the openers were similar. If only it was the same as having a whole show be a compile of other corps shows. Then you might have a good point.

[Martybucs]

Woo Hoo! Wonderful that the arrangements of the openers were similar. If only it was the same as having a whole show be a compile of other corps shows. Then you might have a good point.

but what you're saying is an assumption only. It is your perception based on some belief that whichever corps may have played a piece or did a maneuver in the past owns it.

You're also assuming that DCA corps sit around figuring out how to copy DCI programs and that is absurd. Do you really think they have the time or the inclination to copy DCI corps? Perhaps the staff may be familiar with something a DCI corps has done and gets inspiration from it, but copy it? That's BS.

A lot of times it comes down to what is available. Lot's of classical pieces are available and corps have been playing them since corps have been around. Doesn't mean that anyone is copying anyone else.

In the early 1970s my junior corps did "Jupiter" and "Carmina Burana" before any DCI corps did it. Did they copy us? Heck no, they're just songs that lend themselves to drum corps.

I'm sure if one were to investigate, you would see that many of the songs that you claim are DCI corps signature pieces have been done before in DCA.

Edited December 26, 2007 by Martybucs

[davidp]

But is it not true that for some songs, there's only so much you can do to them? Take "You Really Got Me" for instance; you have the Kinks' version, and the one by Oingo Boingo (which I think would be great for minicorps, btw). Most groups cover the Kinks' version, and there's only one real way to play it. What else can you do, besides doing the Oingo Boingo version (which rocks, if you haven't heard it, imo)? I imagine the same goes for a lot of other classical, jazz, and even show tunes.

Not exactly corps related, but I saw a local PBS broadcast a few years ago of a band show in Rome, GA, where 3-4 bands played the same stock arrangement of "Georgia On My Mind" one right after the other.

[Kay]

Woo Hoo! Wonderful that the arrangements of the openers were similar. If only it was the same as having a whole show be a compile of other corps shows. Then you might have a good point.

Who ###### in your Cheerios - Merry Christmas to you too! That 'tude belongs over in the "other" message board.

[euphononium]

You're also assuming that DCA corps sit around figuring out how to copy DCI programs and that is absurd. Do you really think they have the time or the inclination to copy DCI corps? Perhaps the staff may be familiar with something a DCI corps has done and gets inspiration from it, but copy it? That's BS.

i fail to see the BS in that theory. why shouldn't DCA copy DCI? their fan base is bigger, they have a successful working model that continues to attract fans year after year. go ahead and mutter what you want about DCI today, but numbers ARE NOT dropping. dci finals attendance ran about 30,000+, dca finals - 7 maybe 8,000. i know you hate this word, but i'd assume that it's safe to say a decent percentage of the DCA attendance saw at least one DCI show in the last 10 years. truth is, a show will be more fan friendly to most (myself not included) if it looks and sounds like a dci show that they've seen recently.

to those like myself, it's painstaking to sit and watch. i've grown very tired of the "oh hey! remember when vanguard did that one song??.. yeah! i liked it when cadets did this, why don't we throw that in there!.. sure! while we're at it, let's do this part from phantom's show, who doesn't like them!.. and who could forget the blue devils!!" what i'm even more tired of is corps are continuously rewarded for it. i would much rather see a corps attempt something new and different and be successful at it because they make it their own... i.e. the renegades in 2007..or any other year for that matter. they didn't win, but it was probably the most creative show ever. in the entire history of drum corps. yeah, i said it, and they should have received more credit than they did because it was something that i've never seen before.

it is my hope that dca can start heading in a different direction rather than follow in the shadows and footsteps of dci. thankfully, the renegades are a glimmer of hope for me.. as for the rest of them.........